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 "De Ecclesia" by Vatican II Theological Commission 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:40 am
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New post "De Ecclesia" by Vatican II Theological Commission
Fr. Komonchak, a Vatican II historian, has translated on July 27, 2013, the eleven chapters of the draft De Ecclesia elaborated by the preparatory Theological Commission for Vatican II. (source)

It's very interesting because it
  • has copious, well-documented footnotes
  • frequently uses the term "Church Militant"
  • Ch. 2 begins with an excellent statement of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus: "The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her."
  • Ch. 10 is unambiguous; its subheading reads: "The Principle: The Distinction between Church and Civil Society, and the Subordination of the Purpose of the State to the Purpose of the Church."
  • supports the statement "No civil community, therefore, should consider that it can legitimately oppose the fulfilment of this mission divinely entrusted to the Church for the whole world." by citing Franzelin et al. (fn. 6, p. 56)
  • has a neat footnote (#6, p. 64) that describes, in the context of ecumenism ("Christian unity"), the historical usage of the word "Church" as applied to non-Catholic groups ("particular churches")

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Modernism: modernism. us.to
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Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:24 am
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New post Re: "De Ecclesia" by Vatican II Theological Commission
Alan Aversa wrote:
2 begins with an excellent statement of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus: "The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her."


Well if it says just this it is incomplete. Because the Church is necessary both with necessity of precept and of mean.
This statement refers to the necessity of precept only, or not?

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Leon Bloy


Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:41 pm
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:40 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
New post Re: "De Ecclesia" by Vatican II Theological Commission
Cristian Jacobo wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
2 begins with an excellent statement of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus: "The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her."


Well if it says just this it is incomplete. Because the Church is necessary both with necessity of precept and of mean.
This statement refers to the necessity of precept only, or not?
Here's the full intro ¶:
Quote:
8. The Necessity of the Church for Salvation.

The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation1 and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her. Just as no one can be saved except by receiving baptism—by which anyone who does not pose some obstacle to incorporation becomes a member of the Church—or at least by desire for baptism, so also no one can attain salvation unless he is a member of the Church or at least is ordered towards the Church by desire. But for anyone to attain to salvation, it is not enough that he be really a member of the Church or be by desire ordered towards it; it is also required that he die in the state of grace, joined to God by faith, hope, and charity.

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:39 am
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:49 pm
Posts: 552
Location: Argentina
New post Re: "De Ecclesia" by Vatican II Theological Commission
Alan Aversa wrote:
Cristian Jacobo wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
2 begins with an excellent statement of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus: "The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her."


Well if it says just this it is incomplete. Because the Church is necessary both with necessity of precept and of mean.
This statement refers to the necessity of precept only, or not?
Here's the full intro ¶:
Quote:
8. The Necessity of the Church for Salvation.

The Holy Synod teaches, as God's Holy Church has always taught, that the Church is necessary for salvation1 and that no one can be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded by God through Jesus Christ, nevertheless refuses to enter her or to persevere in her. Just as no one can be saved except by receiving baptism—by which anyone who does not pose some obstacle to incorporation becomes a member of the Church—or at least by desire for baptism, so also no one can attain salvation unless he is a member of the Church or at least is ordered towards the Church by desire. But for anyone to attain to salvation, it is not enough that he be really a member of the Church or be by desire ordered towards it; it is also required that he die in the state of grace, joined to God by faith, hope, and charity.


Thanks!

_________________
"Il n`y a qu`une tristesse, c`est de n`etre pas des Saints"

Leon Bloy


Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:24 am
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