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 SSPX comes to agreement with Rome? 
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Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:38 pm
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New post SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Does anyone know if this has been confirmed, or can anyone find another source for this?


http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/04/for-record-latest-tornielli-fellays.html


Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:18 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
It seems that Fellay has signed. The only source, at the moment, are the unofficial news of the italian vaticanist Andrea Tornielli, I think.


Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:38 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Oh my, pray it isn't true!

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:41 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
It seems to me that we are becoming fewer and fewer. I wonder where (and when) it will all end?

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Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:34 am
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
I have read a few stories today saying that an agreement has been signed. The latest one being: http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... to-vatican

Since we attend an SSPX chapel currently, I will need to see how this all plays out - assuming an agreement was reached.

On another note, I read +Wlliamson's latest Eleison Comments, and in taking it with his comments on the situation over the years, I really wonder what he will do. It doesn't seem, to me at least, that he would want an agreement. And then, what of the sede priests and faithful in the SSPX? Another split?

All speculation though until the "official" word comes out.


Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:48 am
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
If the SSPX regularizes, that would mean an over 90% increase in traditional parishes! (source). Deo gratias!

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Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:58 am
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Hello everyone.

If the SSPX regularizes, whatever we think of the strategic merits of Bp Fellay's negotiating process, it brings the battle against Modernism to new heights. It puts further pressure on Benedict to defend himself against accusations of heresy, which hitherto have come from sources that he could ignore from a political standpoint. Clearly many, many carrots have been presented before Bp Fellay to accept an agreement, especially judging from commentaries elsewhere (eg: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/04/has-sspx-bp-fellay-signed-the-cdfs-doctrinal-preamble-tornielli-says-yes/ - a blog belonging to Fr. John Zuhlsdorf.)

From La Stampa: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/homepage/vaticano/dettaglio-articolo/articolo/lefebvriani-lefebvrians-lefebvrianos-14410/:

Quote:
It is not ruled out that Fellay’s response be examined by the Cardinals of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in the next “Feria Quarta” [Wednesday] meeting, which should take place in the first half of May. Meanwhile, some further weeks will be needed so that a canonical arrangement can be established: the most probable proposal is that of establishing a “personal prelature”, a legal figure introduced in the Code of Canon Law in 1983 [Rorate note 2] and up to now used only by Opus Dei. The prelate depends directly of the Holy See. The Society of Saint Pius X will continue to celebrate Mass according to the ancient Missal, and to form its priests in its seminaries.


So is it with the promise of an exponential rise of SSPX parishes worldwide ($$$) that Bp Fellay has pursued this path? Was that his price? It appears to be the reason why "reformers of the reform" within the Vatican want this deal to go forward, but I cannot yet see how this path can lead to anything but an unsatisfactory compromise in the end.

Edit: I think as facts surface and the spin and propaganda settles we might find the picture to be a bit more balanced, but I noted a quotation of Bishop Williamson's that applies strongly to the present moment: (from his recent Open Reply to Msgr Nicola Bux)

Quote:
Your letter begins with an appeal for “every sacrifice in the name of unity”. But
there can be no true Catholic unity that is not grounded in the true Catholic Faith.
The great Archbishop made every sacrifice for unity in the true doctrine of the
Faith. Alas, the Doctrinal Discussions of 2009-2011 proved that the doctrinal rift
between the Rome of Vatican II and the SSPX is as wide as ever. But Faith sacrificed
for unity would be a faithless unity.



This is my first post, and I apologize for its speculative nature, but there is little to go on in the current moment.


Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:45 am
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Alan Aversa wrote:
If the SSPX regularizes, that would mean an over 90% increase in traditional parishes! (source). Deo gratias!


What on earth does this mean? The traditional parishes already exist.

Maizar wrote:
If the SSPX regularizes, whatever we think of the strategic merits of Bp Fellay's negotiating process, it brings the battle against Modernism to new heights. It puts further pressure on Benedict to defend himself against accusations of heresy, which hitherto have come from sources that he could ignore from a political standpoint.


Would this put "pressure on Benedict"? I think it would be the other way around. If the SSPX regularizes, the pressure will be on Fellay and the Society priests to stop making open (or even veiled) accusations of heresy. But we really won't know for a while. First, we don't really know the fine print of any "agreement" and we don't know how the regularization will effect the priests of the Society.

What we do know, however, is if there is a regularization, the SSPX will be utterly unable to require, or even encourage, conditional ordinations of any priest who assists them. They may even need to cease conditional ordinations even if a priest desires it. If this is the case (and we won't know this for a while) it will not take long before the faithful cannot have a pretty fair assurance that the priest at the altar is truly a Catholic priest or a layman appointed to these priestly duties.

If there is a true "regularization" in which the SSPX is free to legally operate anywhere (as they do now) according to the Conciliar legal processes, I believe the SSPX will begin a rapid decline and will eventually be no more influential within Conciliar structures as the Fraternity of St. Peter. And, I have no doubt, that within a few years, the Vatican will take complete control over the Society, as they did with the Fraternity, and will end up appointed one of their own as Superior General. Bishop Fellay, having done his work, will be consigned to oblivion.

The SSPX seems to be swimming, without a cage, in shark infested waters, and the reports seem to indicate that Bishop Fellay has got a bloody wound.


Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:48 am
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
There's no agreement (yet). Bishop Fellay has sent his final clarification letter regarding the Preamble. "Rome" has already told him that they have dropped their "preconditions" (i.e. signing the Preamble) so we appear to be exactly where I suggested in the main thread about this matter. If reports are to be believed, "rome" has performed an end-run around the foolish SSPX leadership and will offer them what they asked for. There's a saying about that, isn't there? Be careful what you ask for...

What a mess.

But, we don't know yet how this ends. Time, and not much of it, will tell.

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Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:20 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
John Lane wrote:
There's no agreement (yet). Bishop Fellay has sent his final clarification letter regarding the Preamble. "Rome" has already told him that they have dropped their "preconditions" (i.e. signing the Preamble) so we appear to be exactly where I suggested in the main thread about this matter. If reports are to be believed, "rome" has performed an end-run around the foolish SSPX leadership and will offer them what they asked for. There's a saying about that, isn't there? Be careful what you ask for...

What a mess.

But, we don't know yet how this ends. Time, and not much of it, will tell.


I don't doubt what you have posted, John, but could use a source for where it was said that Rome dropped the precondition of signing the Preamble. Thanks in advance. Oh, and it makes perfect sense from Rome's perspective.


Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:21 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Two things to consider:

1. If 'the deal' is truly done, then this may force those in SSPX (clergy and laity) to choose sides - which wouldn't be a bad thing. It may, perhaps, strengthen and unify (in some manner) the sede world.

2. Won't Bp Fellay have to get the 'yay' votes from the General Chapter meeting this summer in order for the SSPX, as a whole, to move forward with 'the deal'? Or will they have no say in the matter?


Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:29 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
This is the latest I've seen regarding this:

http://www.dici.org/en/news/communique- ... l-18-2012/


Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:52 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
Charlenil wrote:
I don't doubt what you have posted, John, but could use a source for where it was said that Rome dropped the precondition of signing the Preamble. Thanks in advance. Oh, and it makes perfect sense from Rome's perspective.


Here it is - March 31 Eleison Comments. I didn't realise the import of it when I read it originally.

Quote:
The desire of certain priests within the Society of St Pius X to seek a practical agreement with the Church authorities without a doctrinal agreement seems to be a recurring temptation. For years Bishop Fellay as the Society’s Superior General has refused the idea, but when he said in Winona on February 2 that Rome is willing to accept the Society as is, and that it is ready to satisfy “all the Society’s requirements...on the practical level”, it does look as though Rome is holding out the same temptation once more.

However, the latest news from Rome will be known to many of you: unless the Vatican is playing games with the SSPX, it announced last Friday, March 16, that it found Bishop Fellay’s January reply to its Doctrinal Preamble of September 14 of last year “not sufficient to overcome the doctrinal problems which lie at the foundation of the rift between the Holy See and the SSPX.” And the Vatican gave the SSPX one month in which to “clarify its position” and avoid “a rupture of painful and incalculable consequences.”

But what if Rome were suddenly to cease requiring acceptance of the Council and the New Mass ? What if Rome were suddenly to say, “Alright. We have thought about it. Come back into the Church as you ask. We will give you freedom to criticize the Council as much as you like, and freedom to celebrate the Tridentine Mass exclusively. But do come in !” It might be a very cunning move on the part of Rome, because how could the Society refuse such an offer without seeming inconsistent and downright ungrateful?

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Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:17 pm
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New post Re: SSPX comes to agreement with Rome?
TKGS wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
If the SSPX regularizes, that would mean an over 90% increase in traditional parishes! (source). Deo gratias!


What on earth does this mean? The traditional parishes already exist.
Haha yes
I forgot to specify "regularized with Rome."

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:15 am
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