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 DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass 
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New post DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
http://www.dici.org/actualites/a-propos ... gr-fellay/

Google translation:

Quote:
12-05-2014
Filed under News , Tradition

On 10 May 2014, the English site Rorate Caeli has published under the pseudonym " Adfero ," a " proprietary information " whose sources could be - according to him - disclosed. This " proprietary information ", taken by various media revealed that Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X , the Pope met Francis. On May 11 , the Roman I.Media agency was aware that two assistants Bishop Fellay, Niklaus Pfluger abbots and Alain- Marc Nély had attended the private Mass the Pope.

Abbots and Pfluger Nély have never attended the private Mass the Pope, and journalists who claim would be hard to indicate the day of the alleged assistance. Here are the facts .

13 December 2013 Bishop Fellay and his assistants went to Rome at the request of the Commission Ecclesia Dei , for an informal meeting . Following this interview, Monsignor Guido Pozzo , Secretary of the Commission , has invited his counterparts to lunch at the dining room of St. Martha House where they were joined by Archbishop Augustine Di Noia , Assistant Secretary of the Congregation of the Faith. It is in this vast refectory that the Pope takes his daily meals, away from other guests.

Mgr Pozzo held to present Bishop Fellay to the pope when he was leaving the room. There was a brief exchange where Francis told Bishop Fellay , according to the usual formula of politeness, "I am delighted to make your acquaintance "; what Bishop Fellay said he prayed a lot , and the pope asked him to pray for him. Such was the "meeting" that lasted a few seconds.

In the interview he gave to the Rock ( April-May 2014 ), Bishop Fellay responded to the question: Are there been a formal approach to Rome to reconnect with you since the election of Pope François ? - " There has been an approach unofficial ' Rome back in touch with us, but nothing more and I did not request a hearing as I could do it after the election of Benedict XVI . For me right now things are very simple: we remain as we are. Some have concluded close contact 2012 I asked as the supreme principle the need for canonical recognition . Conservation of traditional faith and our Catholic identity is paramount and remains our first principle .

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Mon May 12, 2014 11:52 am
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
An English translation will be published on DICI shortly, I am reliably informed.

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Mon May 12, 2014 2:46 pm
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
Actually, it's there now:

Quote:
About a “meeting” between the Pope and Bishop Fellay

12-05-2014
Filed under From Tradition, News

On May 10, 2014, the English-speaking blog Rorate Caeli published under the pseudonym “Adfero”, some “exclusive information” whose sources could not be – according to him – disclosed. This “exclusive information”, spread by the media, revealed that Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X, met with Pope Francis. On May 11, the Roman agency I.Media published that Bp. Fellay’s two assistants, Fr. Niklaus Pfluger and Fr. Marc-Alain Nély, had attended the Pope’s private Mass.

Fathers Pfluger and Nely have never attended the Pope’s private Mass, and journalists who claim otherwise would have a hard time to indicate the day of the alleged assistance. Here are the facts:

On December 13, 2013, Bishop Fellay and his assistants went to Rome for an informal meeting at the request of the Ecclesia Dei Commission. Following this interview, the Secretary of the Commission, Msgr. Guido Pozzo, invited his counterparts for lunch at St. Martha House’s dining room where they were joined by Archbishop Augustine Di Noia, Assistant Secretary of the Congregation of the Faith. It is in this large refectory that the Pope takes his daily meals, away from other guests.

Msgr. Pozzo insisted on introducing Bishop Fellay to the pope while the latter was leaving the refectory. There was a brief exchange where Pope Francis said to Bishop Fellay, according to the usual polite formula, “I’m very glad to meet you.” To this, Bishop Fellay answered that he was praying a lot, and the pope asked him to pray for him. Such was the “meeting” that lasted a few seconds.

In the interview he gave to Le Rocher (April-May 2014), Bishop Fellay answered the following question: Has Rome made an official approach to renew contact with you since the election of Pope Francis? – “Rome made a ‘non-official’ approach to renew contact with us, but nothing more, and I have not asked for an audience as I did after Benedict XVI’s election. For me, things at present are very simple: we stay as we are. Some concluded from my close contact with Rome in 2012 that I regard the necessity of a canonical recognition as a supreme principle. Preserving the Faith and our traditional Catholic identity is essential and remains our first principle.”

(Source: SSPX/MG – DICI 05/12/14)

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Mon May 12, 2014 2:49 pm
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
John,

I had a fruitless encounter with the gentlemen behind Rorate Caeli on twitter. To put it mildly, they weren't keen on correcting their website in light of the DICI press release. Their excuse is that the errors appear in an article republished on their website from IMedia. They seem to operate under the belief that one can publish and distribute anything at all without difficulties of conscience- as long as somebody else has put his name to it.


Tue May 13, 2014 8:50 pm
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
Something about the English translation of the DICI press release gave me pause. I originally saw the French version, which reads as follows:

DICI's original French press release wrote:
A propos d’une « rencontre » entre le pape François et Mgr Fellay


Le 10 mai 2014, le site anglophone Rorate Caeli a fait paraître, sous le pseudonyme « Adfero », une « information exclusive » dont les sources ne pouvaient être – selon lui – divulguées. Cette « information exclusive », reprise par divers médias, révélait que Mgr Bernard Fellay, Supérieur général de la Fraternité Saint-Pie X, avait rencontré le pape François. Le 11 mai, l’agence romaine I.Media faisait savoir que les deux assistants de Mgr Fellay, les abbés Niklaus Pfluger et Alain-Marc Nély avaient assisté à la messe privée du pape.

Les abbés Pfluger et Nély n’ont jamais assisté à la messe privée du pape, et les journalistes qui l’affirment seraient bien en peine d’indiquer le jour de cette prétendue assistance. Voici les faits.

Le 13 décembre 2013, Mgr Fellay et ses assistants se sont rendus à Rome, à la demande de la Commission Ecclesia Dei, pour une rencontre informelle. A l’issue de cet entretien, Mgr Guido Pozzo, secrétaire de la Commission, a invité ses interlocuteurs à déjeuner à la salle à manger de la Maison Sainte-Marthe où ils ont été rejoints par Mgr Augustine Di Noia, secrétaire-adjoint de la Congrégation de la foi. C’est dans ce vaste réfectoire que le pape prend quotidiennement ses repas, à l’écart des autres convives.

Mgr Pozzo a tenu à présenter Mgr Fellay au pape au moment où celui-ci quittait la salle à manger. Il y eut un bref échange où François a dit à Mgr Fellay, selon la formule de politesse habituelle, « enchanté de faire votre connaissance » ; à quoi Mgr Fellay a répondu qu’il priait beaucoup, et le pape lui a demandé de prier pour lui. Telle fut cette « rencontre » qui a duré quelques secondes.

Dans l’entretien qu’il a accordé au Rocher (avril-mai 2014), Mgr Fellay avait répondu à la question suivante : Y a-t-il eu une approche officielle de Rome pour reprendre contact avec vous depuis l’élection du pape François ? - « Il y a eu une approche ‘non officielle’ de Rome pour reprendre contact avec nous, mais rien de plus et je n’ai pas sollicité d’audience comme j’avais pu le faire après l’élection de Benoît XVI. Pour moi actuellement les choses sont très simples : on reste comme on est. Certains ont conclu des contacts rapprochés de 2012 que je posais comme principe suprême la nécessité d’une reconnaissance canonique. La conservation de la foi et de notre identité catholique traditionnelle est primordiale et reste notre principe premier. »


Plugging it into Google's automatic translator, the same text appeared as the one Mr. Lane posted in this thread's OP. The automatic translation is very similar to the official English version issued by DICI; however, comparing it to the original French (admittedly as one who has no command of French beyond "merci beaucoup" and a few culinary terms), the following seemed off:

DICI's original French press release wrote:
Le 11 mai, l’agence romaine I.Media faisait savoir que les deux assistants de Mgr Fellay, les abbés Niklaus Pfluger et Alain-Marc Nély avaient assisté à la messe privée du pape.

Les abbés Pfluger et Nély n’ont jamais assisté à la messe privée du pape, et les journalistes qui l’affirment seraient bien en peine d’indiquer le jour de cette prétendue assistance.


Google's automatic English translation wrote:
On May 11 , the Roman I.Media agency was aware that two assistants Bishop Fellay, Niklaus Pfluger abbots and Alain- Marc Nély had attended the private Mass the Pope.

Abbots and Pfluger Nély have never attended the private Mass the Pope, and journalists who claim would be hard to indicate the day of the alleged assistance.


DICI's English version wrote:
On May 11, the Roman agency I.Media published that Bp. Fellay’s two assistants, Fr. Niklaus Pfluger and Fr. Marc-Alain Nély, had attended the Pope’s private Mass.

Fathers Pfluger and Nely have never attended the Pope’s private Mass, and journalists who claim otherwise would have a hard time to indicate the day of the alleged assistance.


Given my (already admitted) lack of knowledge of the French language, I don't know if rendering "assiste" as "attended" in English is merely a quirk of translation, or (in Google's case) a mistranslation of the original French, or (in DICI's case) an oversight, as there's a significant difference between "assisting" at a Mass and "attending" a Mass. Am I seeing a problem where none exists due to my non-Frenchified mind? If someone here who is familiar with the French language could comment on this (at their convenience, of course), I'd be quite grateful for the information.

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Wed May 14, 2014 12:00 am
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
There's nothing in it, but if John Daly or some other expert in French has a comment that would be better.

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Wed May 14, 2014 12:13 am
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
James Francis wrote:
John,

I had a fruitless encounter with the gentlemen behind Rorate Caeli on twitter. To put it mildly, they weren't keen on correcting their website in light of the DICI press release. Their excuse is that the errors appear in an article republished on their website from IMedia. They seem to operate under the belief that one can publish and distribute anything at all without difficulties of conscience- as long as somebody else has put his name to it.


Well, they really are game-players. I just had a look and they have added a note pointing out that DICI has issued a denial of "I.Media's additions." So they are standing by their original text, which looked vague and badly constructed when I first saw it, but in hindsight it's a masterpiece of creative trouble-making. Vague enough not to say anything deniable, spun just right so as to cause maximum disturbance within the Fraternity. The devil himself couldn't have done it better. Brilliant, and nasty. Well done, Rorate, you come not to bring peace, but a sword.*






* You might want to look that text up in a pre-V2 commentary. Dividing Catholics from each other is a bad thing. We understand that they don't teach advanced theology like this in the Novus Ordo, hence this suggestion.

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Wed May 14, 2014 12:34 am
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
"Attend" is the correct translation into modern English of "assister" when the reference is to presence (e.g. at a ceremony). The English word "assist" can also mean "be present at", but this use is no longer current.


Wed May 14, 2014 9:29 am
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
Thank you for the clarification, Mr. Daly.

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Wed May 14, 2014 3:07 pm
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New post Re: DICI denies Frs. Pfluger and Nely at New Mass
John Lane wrote:
James Francis wrote:
John,

I had a fruitless encounter with the gentlemen behind Rorate Caeli on twitter. To put it mildly, they weren't keen on correcting their website in light of the DICI press release. Their excuse is that the errors appear in an article republished on their website from IMedia. They seem to operate under the belief that one can publish and distribute anything at all without difficulties of conscience- as long as somebody else has put his name to it.


Well, they really are game-players. I just had a look and they have added a note pointing out that DICI has issued a denial of "I.Media's additions." So they are standing by their original text, which looked vague and badly constructed when I first saw it, but in hindsight it's a masterpiece of creative trouble-making. Vague enough not to say anything deniable, spun just right so as to cause maximum disturbance within the Fraternity. The devil himself couldn't have done it better. Brilliant, and nasty. Well done, Rorate, you come not to bring peace, but a sword.*






* You might want to look that text up in a pre-V2 commentary. Dividing Catholics from each other is a bad thing. We understand that they don't teach advanced theology like this in the Novus Ordo, hence this suggestion.


Excellent observation John, I don't read enough Rorate Caeli to know just how bad they mess things up. Good to know someone is keeping tabs.

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Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:48 am
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