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 Bergoglio information 
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New post Bergoglio information
John,

Can we pin this Thead or, if you wish, a thread with your own title that is dedicated solely to information, with sources, on Bergoglio ?


Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:58 pm
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"Ordained" December 13, 1969

"Consecrated" June 27, 1992




http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bbergj.html


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:12 am
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"The Horror!
A Buenos Aires journalist describes Bergoglio"

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... alist.html


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:16 am
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"What I would have said at the Consistory

An interview with Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Archbishop of Buenos Aires"


http://www.30giorni.it/articoli_id_16457_l3.htm


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:18 am
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"The Attraction of the Cardinal"



http://www.traces-cl.com/Giu2001/argent.htm


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:20 am
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"Hanukkah 2012: Argentine Catholics and Jews celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas together"


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=BkeaWNH2 ... keaWNH2kCE


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:23 am
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"Pope Francis' run-in with Benedict XVI over the Prophet Mohammed"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... ammed.html


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:27 am
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"The Pinocchio Mass"


http://mundabor.wordpress.com/2013/03/1 ... chio-mass/


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:29 am
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"Argentine rabbi who co-authored book with Francis I says new leader will ‘search for the truth.'"


http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/break ... shoah-pope


Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:31 am
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And he's an honorary member of Rotary International. See here. Anyone surprised ?


Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:45 am
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"Pope Francis celebrates mass at St. Anne Parish 3/17/2013"

Here Bergoglio goes back to the "for all" formula and his co-"consecrating" pseudo priests give communion in the hand to at least two people.


http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=YYmbgKvo ... YmbgKvoppQ


Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:40 pm
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His first "mass" without genuflection (min 51)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... dWZWDqhCdA

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Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:28 pm
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"Pope's childhood sweetheart speaks"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=ajxESUiPN0c


Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:33 pm
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A meeting with president Kirchner today after which she announces that it was the first time she had been kissed by a pope. (She had met Ratzinger but he was obviously more reserved!)

However, this is nothing when we discover that Francesco has also introduced the kiss into the rite of confirmation to replace the blow on the cheek that the Novus Ordo forgot to abolish : here it is.


Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:19 pm
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Leonardo Boff: "Pope Francis is much more liberal than what is supposed."


http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... -more.html


Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:48 pm
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"Thursday, March 14, 2013
Francis wants to 'contribute' to Catholic-Jewish relations
Letter from Bergoglio to the rabbi of the Roman Jewish community Riccardo Di Segni"

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/articl ... -relations


Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:18 pm
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http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=680190

For those who read Spanish and have good stomach :)

This woman "married" a bishop... this Bishop was a good friend of Bergo even after his "marriage". Then Bergo called this woman every Sunday, and she says Bergo will be like JXXIII!

This part seems interesting to me:

Quote:
When he said goodbye to me that Sunday (the day before Bergo went to Rome) I told him: "you are not coming back" and he answered me "you are a wicked witchcraft" (sic). I told him: "No, I assured you (this and all the "you" in Argentinean Spanish are very informal) I don´t know what I feel, but you will stay there. Last time (2005 conclave) you said "no" but this time you won`t be able to do so. He responded me "I know".


I believe Bergo knew (as Ratz did in 2005) he was the chosen one before the election took place.

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:49 am
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Cristian Jacobo wrote:
This woman "married" a bishop... this Bishop was a good friend of Bergo even after his "marriage". Then Bergo called this woman every Sunday, and she says Bergo will be like JXXIII!


Fascinating!

For those who can't be bothered running through it, here's a summary.

Clelia Luro was a married woman with six daughters, who separated from her husband at the time of Vatican 2, shacked up with a Catholic bishop (Jerome Podesta), and later, when the bishop was excommunicated and defrocked for his crimes, she “married” him. Many years later the bishop lay dying, and Bergoglio brought him the last sacraments. Luro became friends with Bergoglio as a result, and she says they became such close friends that he would telephone her every Sunday and they would speak for 40 minutes or so. Further, she says that they spoke even on the Sunday preceding his departure for Rome, for the conclave, and she had the following exchange with him:

<< When he farewelled me on Sunday because he was traveling on the Monday I said "You will not be returning," and he said: "you're a wicked witch." I replied, "No, I assure you I do not know how I feel, but you are staying there, you refused the last time but this time you cannot say no." He replied: "And I know Clelia". >>

Cristian, the impression I got was that Bergoglio and Podesta were not friends really, but that Bergoglio received him on one occasion and was very friendly, and later when he was in hospital, brought him the last sacraments. This then led to the friendship with Luro, precisely because Luro was so grateful that Bergoglio showed by his actions that he regarded Podesta as a good Catholic. Is that right, or did I miss something? If I'm right, what happened was that Bergoglio's approval of her sin attached Luro to him. This makes him an antichrist, par excellence.

Anyway, she is certainly clear how his Nontificate will be:

Quote:
Q. How do you imagine his pontificate will be?

Luro: It'll be like John XXIII. Bergolgio has a close affinity to Vatican II; he has already begun. One of the points of Vatican II is "The Church is the people of God" and on the balcony before giving the blessing he asked the people to bless him. Then he spoke of freedom of conscience which is also a muted doctrine of Vatican II because the previous Pope silenced all that. It will be an overturning within the Church, it will be a springtime for all those who think as we do.

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:00 am
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John Lane wrote:
Cristian, the impression I got was that Bergoglio and Podesta were not friends really, but that Bergoglio received him on one occasion and was very friendly, and later when he was in hospital, brought him the last sacraments. This then led to the friendship with Luro, precisely because Luro was so grateful that Bergoglio showed by his actions that he regarded Podesta as a good Catholic. Is that right, or did I miss something? If I'm right, what happened was that Bergoglio's approval of her sin attached Luro to him. This makes him an antichrist, par excellence.


Yes, you are right John sorry, I read it rather quickly. Bergo and Podestá meet sometime before his death.

Anyway, another thing the article says about Podestá is that he was the president of the "Latin American married priests" (sic) which gathered 150.000 persons, which is a huge number! And Bergo doesn´t care about this!

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:13 am
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http://www.lavoz.com.ar/noticias/mundo/ ... o%E2%80%9D

Another gem!

The very well known liberation theology and "former" priest Leonardo Boff says that Bergo is "much more liberal than what people thinks" and that he will surprise many "by a radical change in the Church".

Then he says that if Bergo was "conservative on certain topics (contraceptives, celibacy, homosexuality) it was because of "the Vatican pressure". And then this:

Quote:
A couple of months ago he expressly approved that a homosexual couple adopted a child. He is in contact with priests who has been repudiated by the official Church because they have married.


And then this

Quote:
Now he is the Pope and can do whatever he wants. Many will be surprised with the things Francis will do. In order to do this he will have to break with the traditions, leaving behind the corrupt Vatican curia in order to have a universal church

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Leon Bloy


Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:25 am
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Cristian Jacobo wrote:
Anyway, another thing the article says about Podestá is that he was the president of the "Latin American married priests" (sic) which gathered 150.000 persons, which is a huge number! And Bergo doesn´t care about this!

Yes, I saw that too, but it seemed like too large a number. Even if you count the men and the women involved, it would be 75,000 priests who have left and attempted marriage in Latin American alone. Is that possible?

But you're right - Bergo made it clear by his actions that Podesta was all right. Those who desire to defend Bergo will argue that he was merely kind to a sinner, but Bergo never says "Go and sin no more" - he simply doesn't recognise sin as sin, or as a problem. What he recognises as problems are things like poverty and people disapproving of sin. Those are problems, "sins", and those must be condemned, but real sin is transparent to this fellow. He doesn't see it. He condemns the condemnation of sin, and misrepresents it as the condemnation of the sinner. So he’s a liar as well as a heretic.

The other point which is very clear is this bloke's modus operandi. The article you found is entitled, "Bergoglio es un hombre de gestos" (Bergoglio is a man of gestures). This is exactly right. He is a man of significant acts, of acts which signify things. Hummes said the same thing about him. He does not use words to make his point, he uses actions. Taking the sacraments to a notorious, unrepentant, sinner, is a clear sign. Bowing to receive the "blessing" of a Protestant is a clear sign. Inviting some of the cardinals to come to the balcony after the election was a clear sign. Not wearing the rochet was a clear sign. I’ll bet we won’t find too many heterodox statements by him, because he avoids them, just as he avoids orthodox statements. He has little use for words, as such. He preaches by gestures.

One more thing, Cristian, while you're on the case. We're hearing second-hand reports that Bergoglio is a harsh and impatient man in private, contrary to his 'umble 'umble act in public. Do you know of any reliable sources for these claims?

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:36 am
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New Pope's visit with Cardinal Law criticized
http://bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/03/16 ... story.html

Washington Post: New pope was often quiet on sex abuse cases
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the ... story.html


Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:08 am
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Live coverage of the "inauguration":




Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:47 am
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John Lane wrote:
Cristian Jacobo wrote:
Anyway, another thing the article says about Podestá is that he was the president of the "Latin American married priests" (sic) which gathered 150.000 persons, which is a huge number! And Bergo doesn´t care about this!

Yes, I saw that too, but it seemed like too large a number. Even if you count the men and the women involved, it would be 75,000 priests who have left and attempted marriage in Latin American alone. Is that possible?


Well I don´t really know about numbers. It seemed a lot to me. Perhaps the number goes from the sixties to around 2000?

Quote:
The other point which is very clear is this bloke's modus operandi. The article you found is entitled, "Bergoglio es un hombre de gestos" (Bergoglio is a man of gestures). This is exactly right. He is a man of significant acts, of acts which signify things. Hummes said the same thing about him. He does not use words to make his point, he uses actions. Taking the sacraments to a notorious, unrepentant, sinner, is a clear sign. Bowing to receive the "blessing" of a Protestant is a clear sign. Inviting some of the cardinals to come to the balcony after the election was a clear sign. Not wearing the rochet was a clear sign. I’ll bet we won’t find too many heterodox statements by him, because he avoids them, just as he avoids orthodox statements. He has little use for words, as such. He preaches by gestures.


Indeed, I even expect him to have good speeches such as his first sermon. Time will tell I guess.

Quote:
One more thing, Cristian, while you're on the case. We're hearing second-hand reports that Bergoglio is a harsh and impatient man in private, contrary to his 'umble 'umble act in public. Do you know of any reliable sources for these claims?


Well to be frank I never cared/read about Bergo very much for two reasons: the first one is that I never imagined he would have been elected and the second because he was notoriously progressive and liberal.

I wouldn´t be surprised though if he were so... they say JXXIII was impatient as well... and no wonder why they try to make Bergo appear like "the good Pope" (Johnny XXIII).

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:59 am
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Cristian Jacobo wrote:
Well to be frank ...


Don't be that! :)


Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:30 am
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Bergoglio seems to fit Dante's description of the Geryon in his seventeenth Canto of the Inferno.

"LO! the fell monster with the deadly sting!
Who passes mountains, breaks through fenced walls
And firm embattled spears, and with his filth
Taints all the world!" Thus me my guide address'd,
And beckon'd him, that he should come to shore,
Near to the stony causeway's utmost edge.
Forthwith that image vile of fraud appear'd,
His head and upper part expos'd on land,
But laid not on the shore his bestial train.
His face the semblance of a just man's wore,
So kind and gracious was its outward cheer;
The rest was serpent all: two shaggy claws
Reach'd to the armpits, and the back and breast,
And either side, were painted o'er with nodes
And orbits. Colours variegated more
Nor Turks nor Tartars e'er on cloth of state
With interchangeable embroidery wove,
Nor spread Arachne o'er her curious loom.
As ofttimes a light skiff, moor'd to the shore,
Stands part in water, part upon the land;
Or, as where dwells the greedy German boor,
The beaver settles watching for his prey;
So on the rim, that fenc'd the sand with rock,
Sat perch'd the fiend of evil. In the void
Glancing, his tail upturn'd its venomous fork,
With sting like scorpion's arm'd. Then thus my guide:
"Now need our way must turn few steps apart,
Far as to that ill beast, who couches there."

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:13 pm
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From the Laudes regiæ of the "inauguration mass" (a) for Benedict XVI and (b) this morning for Francesco :

2005 :
Quote:
“Benedicto Romano Pontifici, Petri successori, suum ministerium hodie inauguranti, sollicitudo pro universa Ecclesia !”


2013 :
Quote:
“Francisco Romano Episcopo, Successori Petri, suum ministerium hodie inauguranti: robur, concordia Spiritus et sollicitudo pro universa Ecclesia !”


Once again it is clear that he has a horror of the word "Pope" and of the synonymous term "Roman Pontiff".

Sedevacantism now seems to be home and dry : he is falling over backwards to avoid even claiming to be Pope or Roman Pontiff. Pretty soon the left wing of the SSPX will be the only ones left to claim that he is one.


Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:08 pm
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Unfortunately, we live in a time when the "persona" will be enough for most people. They won't look any further. The friendly salt of the earth looking Francis will fool many.

Look at him in 2001 vs. today:


Attachments:
Francis.jpg
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Pre-Frances.jpg
Pre-Frances.jpg [ 29.77 KiB | Viewed 68603 times ]
Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:30 pm
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John Daly wrote:
From the Laudes regiæ of the "inauguration mass" (a) for Benedict XVI and (b) this morning for Francesco :

2005 :
Quote:
“Benedicto Romano Pontifici, Petri successori, suum ministerium hodie inauguranti, sollicitudo pro universa Ecclesia !”


2013 :
Quote:
“Francisco Romano Episcopo, Successori Petri, suum ministerium hodie inauguranti: robur, concordia Spiritus et sollicitudo pro universa Ecclesia !”


One wonders, how obvious does he want to make it, John?

Even the secular media have noticed:

Quote:
He has consistently referred to himself as Bishop of Rome, rather than Pope, and declined the ermine-trimmed red cape beloved of Pope Benedict, saying: ''No thank you, Monsignor. You put it on instead. Carnival time is over!''

http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-eschew ... z2NzurhctZ


And apparently, he didn't think it important to mention the importance of giving glory to God:
Quote:
Pope Francis was installed as leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics at his inauguration Mass at St Peter's Basilica on Tuesday, calling on ''all men and women of good will'' to protect creation, the environment and each other.


The trees and the kangaroos will be pleased!

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:56 pm
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For those of us who are mono-ligual, can someone translate these passages into English?

I ask because, although I do see the difference in the bolded words, but there are other differences that I am unable to translate.


Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:17 pm
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First beatification of Bergo a liberation theology "priest"?

http://www.lmcordoba.com.ar/nota/122792 ... -dictadura

This priest was very closed to Mons Angelelli, a very well known communist bishop.

Bergo signed in May 2011 the cause of his canonization.

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Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:20 pm
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Here is the full text of Francesco's letter to Rome's Chief Rabbi, Dr. Riccardo Di Segni,

Quote:
On this day of my election as Bishop of Rome and Pastor of the Universal Church, I send you my cordial greetings, informing you that the solemn inauguration of my pontificate will take place on Tuesday, 19 March.
Trusting in the protection of the Most High, I strongly hope to be able to contribute to the progress made in the relations between Jews and Catholics since Vatican Council II in a spirit of renewed collaboration and in service of a world that may always be more in harmony with the Creator’s will.
From the Vatican, 13th March 2013,
Franciscus PP


The most amazing thing about this letter is that, if it is authentic, and was truly sent on 13th March, when he was elected, it practically means that he went without dinner in order to be able to write it. It is the act of a man accomplishing a most urgent duty, to which all else must take second place.


Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:37 pm
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http://www.news.va/en/news/pope-homily- ... e-ministry

Not sure what others thought, but I had two observations on this "homily":

1. More naturalism - e.g. "As the spouse of Mary, he is at her side in good times and bad, on the journey to Bethlehem for the census and in the anxious and joyful hours when she gave birth; amid the drama of the flight into Egypt and during the frantic search for their child in the Temple..." These are totally false qualifiers, de-supernaturalising the events in view.

2. St. Joseph's vocation is mis-defined so as to avoid the fundamental concept of Fatherhood. "In the Gospel we heard that 'Joseph did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took Mary as his wife' (Mt 1:24). These words already point to the mission which God entrusts to Joseph: he is to be the custos, the protector." No, he isn't, he's the Foster-Father of Our Lord and the Husband of Our Lady. But that won't suit the purposes of Francis, as becomes clear in the remainder of his speech. For example, "It means caring for one another in our families: husbands and wives first protect one another, and then, as parents, they care for their children, and children themselves, in time, protect their parents." Note the weird concept of wives "protecting" their husbands! (For those totally befuddled by modern non-thought, yes, a wife may, exceptionally, protect her husband. It's an exception, not specifically her role. Liberals specialise in taking exceptions and building arguments upon them.)

Fancis likewise and for the same reason refuses the term "steward" which one would think would be the mot juste if one wished to speak of "protecting creation". Why? Because stewardship implies a Steward, a paterfamilias, a Father, from whom the steward has received his charge, and to whom the steward is responsible. We are children of God, the Father; we are stewards of creation. St. Joseph was a father, that was his vocation. He did not, therefore, merely "protect" the Holy Family, he governed it. He is Patron of the Universal Church, not merely her "protector". Likewise he was a steward, taking the place of our heavenly Father in a specific, authorised, role.

But these concepts are traditional, and Casual Frank hates tradition. He hates "patriarchy" and he hates the essential, natural, inequality of the sexes, and everything that flows from it.

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Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:17 am
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TKGS wrote:
For those of us who are mono-ligual, can someone translate these passages into English?

I ask because, although I do see the difference in the bolded words, but there are other differences that I am unable to translate.


Dear TKGS,

The booklet for the "celebration" has the following:

"For Francis, Bishop of Rome and Successor of Peter, who today begins his ministry: grant strenth, the understanding of the Holy Spirit and solicitude towards the Universal Church."

Now, what's interesting is to compare the Laudes which Benny used with the version of Frank. In brief, I would say that true to form, Frank's "Laudes" are simplified and shortened.

Benny's text is here: http://www.vatican.va/news_services/lit ... if_it.html

Frank's text is in protected pdf form only, here: http://www.vatican.va/news_services/lit ... etrino.pdf

Here are two verses from the Laudes used in Benny's ceremony:

Benedicto
Romano Episcopo Successori Petri
Gregis Christi unitatem exprimenti:
robur et concordia Spiritus!

And:

Benedicto
Romano Pontifici, Petri successori,
suum ministerium hodie inauguranti
sollicitudo pro universa Ecclesia!


In the booklet for Frank's inauguration as chief heretic amongst many heretics, there is a text in which he is referred to as Supreme Pontiff:

Francisco Summo Pontifici,
in unum populos doctrina congreganti, caritate: Patori gratia, gregi obsequentia.

The translation given is:

For Francis, Supreme Pontiff, who gathereth into one all peoples through doctrine, in charity: let there be grace for the Shepherd and obedience for the flock.

Since Casual Frank doesn't believe in authority, he won't be issuing any commands, so nobody will have occasion for obedience, of course.

What they have done is to mess about with the texts, combining elements of two verses into one, and getting rid of the allusions, the poetry, and any real richness of thought. It's very, very, like the Novus Ordo Missae!

Here's another verse from Benny's, followed by the equivalent in Frank's:

Ecclesiæ, sponsæ et corpori,
Lumine gentium resplendenti Christo:
ædificatio et consolatio Dei!


Ecclesiae sanctae Dei,
supra regnorum fines nectenti animas:
salus perpetua.

This latter verse is translated (awkwardly) as:

For the holy Church of God, beyond kingdoms' boundaries binding together souls: be everlasting safety.

It's easy enough to see how stripped down and lacking in richness that is! The concept of the Church as the Spouse and Body of Christ is gone, the gentiles will not be dazzled by any Light, and nothing and nobody will be edified or consoled. All that remains is a bare reference to international "unity" and a request for the Church's safety. Well, we know how much these blokes love the idea of specifically international unity. In this way they retain the one Catholic notion that suits their own heretical purposes, whilst jettisoning anything which might inspire anybody actually to love the Church.

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Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:01 am
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The non-traditionalist “New Advent” website had a link to this highly scandalous report:

ANSA) - Rome, March 13 - Pope Francis I enjoyed dancing the tango with his girlfriend as a young man in Buenos Aires, according to a 2010 book-length interview with the former archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio.

In the book, called The Jesuit, Francis says he had a girlfriend "who was in a group of friends we went dancing with.

"Then I discovered my religious vocation", he says. Argentinian journalists Francesca Ambrogetti e Sergio Rubin entitled the chapter in The Jesuit containing the revelation I Like The Tango” (http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche ... 94775.html)

Needless to say, those who engage in such licentious activity as the tango or similar type dancing - with its lewd bodily movements, improper physical contact and usually immodest dress - place themselves, and others, in danger of grave sin. And such dancing tends to appeal to those of a frivolous disposition who are not so concerned about the salvation of their own souls.

The following pertinent quotes are taken from Hulot’s work, Balls and Dancing Parties – Condemned by the Scriptures, Holy Fathers, Holy Councils and Most Renowned Theologians of the Church (published by Editions Saint-Remi).

““There are dances,” writes Gillois, “which should be absolutely forbidden, and in which one cannot take part, not even for a single occasion, without incurring the guilt of mortal sin; such are the waltz, the polka, and the schottische….These dances are in their own nature bad, because the positions taken are improper; these should be forever banished from decent society, and it is difficult to understand how any female could submit to them, without abandoning the modesty which belongs to her sex. It may happen, too, in other dances, that the dress, gestures, and discourse may tend and strongly excite to voluptuousness; and from that moment they become an immediate occasion of sin, and consequently must be avoided. In public dances, such as, among the lowest classes of society, are held in liquor shops and saloons, or those of more respectable rank, termed dress and masquerade balls, and to which all who pay are admitted, that all persons unwilling to abandon them are to be regarded as unworthy of absolution.”” (p.xi)

“The ball room is the rallying point of all that is most vicious, most immodest, most corrupt in all classes of society; the dance is the ordinary rendezvous of the vilest slaves of the most shameful passions, who communicate to each other the mortal poison with which their infected heart overflows; it is a fiery furnace, where everything burns with an impure flame, where all is a snare for chastity – that virtue which must be continuing guarded in order to avoid its being intrapped. Dancing, say the Holy Fathers, is the work of the devil, and the theatre of hell.” (pp.17-18)

““Young women who love the dance,” says St. Basil, “lose the fear of God, and despise the flames of hell”” (p.56)

““The dance,” says St. Charles, “is an ingenious invention for corrupting morals; it is the cause of bad thoughts, impure expressions, of adulteries, of the most shameful acts of impurity, of quarrels and murders; it turns away many persons from their religious duties, from prayer, holy reading, and making them inattentive to the instructions of which they stand in extreme need. One cannot go there, continues the archbishop, “without frequently and grievously offending God. Can any one desire his salvation, and expose himself to so many and so great evils, which are the unhappy fruits of dancing?”” (p.62)

“The Bible, the Holy Fathers, and the theologians make no difference between public and private dances; they teach unanimously that they are equally dangerous and illicit. Besides, private dances expose to the same dangers; they present the same occasions of sin; we can even say that the persons who compose these domestic assemblies, make their heart more open to destruction from dangerous objects. In a public assembly a young woman fears all eyes, because she knows that all present observe every thing and pardon nothing; that a gesture, a glance, will be the object of severe criticism; but in these select assemblies she is not so reserved, because she fears opinions less. We cannot but agree that this species of liberty, unbridling her passions, and giving them supreme power, renders these far more dangerous for her than public dances.” (pp.103-104)


Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:52 pm
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Francis


Pope Francis suggested in an interview last year that the Catholic Church's rule that priests be celibate "can change" and admitted he was tempted by a woman as a young seminarian.

He said that the married clergy of the Eastern churches are "very good priests" and those pushing for the same in Roman Catholicism do so "with a certain pragmatism."


Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:44 pm
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Link to an article regarding his temptation as a seminarian and possibility on celibacy change:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/pope-bergoglio-celibacy-law/2013/03/20/id/495558


Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:10 pm
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Despite abortion views, Biden, Pelosi receive Communion in Vatican Mass


http://p.washingtontimes.com/blog/insid ... ve-commun/


Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:39 am
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Recusant wrote:
"Ordained" December 13, 1969

"Consecrated" June 27, 1992

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bbergj.html


The first unpriest at the head of the Novus Ordo.
Br. Bergoglio S.J. (professed in 1960, for what it is worth) might perhaps be deacon, however, or at any rate, subdeacon, etc.
Not that it helps much, of course.


Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:36 pm
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Cristian Jacobo wrote:
http://www.ambito.com/noticia.asp?id=680190



Bergoglio to Madame Luro: sos una bruja mala.

Reminds me of the pot and the kettle.

Thanks for posting these revealing articles.


Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:44 pm
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Lycobates wrote:
Recusant wrote:
"Ordained" December 13, 1969
"Consecrated" June 27, 1992
http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bbergj.html

The first unpriest at the head of the Novus Ordo.


As Ratzo was the first un-bishop...

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Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:03 pm
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From the com-box on Rorate:

Quote:
According to Archbishop William Skurla of the Byzantine Catholic Archdiocese of Pittsburgh, Pope Francis is more than familiar with the Eastern Catholic Churches. First, he was an altar boy at an Eastern Catholic Church near his home in Argentina. This is a surprising information knowing that the eastern liturgy is overly ritualistic and traditional, and since time immemorial the liturgy was celebrated ad orientem. These types of religious services must have made some impression and left vivid memories in heart and mind of the young altar boy Jorge Bergoglio.

In addition when the new pope was the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he was also appointed by John Paul II in 1998 as the Bishop of Argentina for the Faithful of the Eastern Rites. So, Francis is well-acquainted with many eastern rite bishops in the church. Most particularly, he is friends with the head of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, Archbishop Sviatoslav Shevchuk, who was formerly stationed in Buenos Aires. The Eastern Catholic Churches have married priests in the Eastern Hemisphere but have been fighting to lift an eight-decade ban on them in the New World, where in recent years they have been approved on a case-by-case basis.
Francis is well acquainted with ancient liturgical beauty. Wouldn’t be amazing if Francis turns out to be a closeted traditionalist, and becomes a fervent proponent of the traditional liturgy?


A 'closet' traditionalist, probably not...


Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:21 pm
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Quote:
With all of this in mind, His All-Holiness’ decision to travel to Rome for Pope Francis’ installation as Roman bishop is an extraordinary event in the history of Christianity. And it is significant for reasons far beyond its novelty. First and foremost it is a powerful symbolic gesture for the cause of Christian unity. It demonstrates in unprecedented fashion the extent to which the Ecumenical Patriarch considers the relationship with the Roman Catholic Church to be a priority. For their part, members of the Vatican staff have responded to this grand gesture and have arranged for the reading of the Gospel at the installation to be sung in Greek (rather than Latin) in recognition of the fact that the Ecumenical Patriarch has taken this unprecedented step.

The Christian world has been divided for so long that the establishment of an authentic reunion will require courage, leadership, and humility. It will also require a foundation in common faith and concerns. Given Pope Francis’ well-documented work for social justice and his insistence that globalization is detrimental to the poor, it would appear as though the Orthodox and the Roman Catholic traditions have a renewed opportunity to work collectively on issues of mutual concern. With our Lord’s assistance, that common cause can be transformed into more substantive theological work. But such work requires a first step and it would appear as though Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew is willing to take such a step.


From - http://www.archons.org/news/detail.asp?id=619


Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:50 pm
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Another perspective-

http://www.aleteia.org/en/religion/documents/jewish-friend-of-pope-francis-5bhe5d-stood-out-for-his-closeness-to-minorities-514001


Quote:
“I am moved,” said Baruj Tenembaum, founder of the Raoul Wallenberg Foundation, an Argentine Jew and longtime personal friend of Jorge Mario Bergoglio, Pope Francis I.

Temembaum, a pioneer of interreligious dialogue amongst Christians, Muslims and Jews since the 1960s, tells Aleteia, “I am very satisfied, because I believe that we will see, in terms of spirituality, a repetition of the what John XXIII did at the service of the Church and of the world.


Quote:
“I have known him well since he was Auxiliary Bishop of Buenos Aires. He defended a memorial that was erected for the first time in a cathedral, dedicated to the victims of the Shoah by the Mutual Israli-Argentine Association” (“AMIA” in Spanish).


Quote:
“He is a very simple, humble and spiritual man. He participated like no other with everyone in interreligious encounters. He has many rabbi friends, and has published books together with rabbis. He went to many synagogues.


Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:56 pm
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Rorate Com Box wrote:
Wouldn’t be amazing if Francis turns out to be a closeted traditionalist, and becomes a fervent proponent of the traditional liturgy?


Exactly.

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Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:12 am
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Pope to hold Holy Thursday service from a youth jail.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-hold-majo ... 37255.html

Here is footage of John XXIII visiting prison's as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz8x4BbX32g
Newsreel title "Tradition Totters as Pope Blesses Inmates"


Anyhow the article said he had a service in a hospital or jail every year.

Visiting prisons is a work of mercy but these modernist will abuse anything by taking it to an extreme or out of context.


Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:34 am
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Here you can read some forthright views on the subject from Marielena Montesino de Stuart ...
... whom you are invited to call Marielena:
http://romancatholicworld.wordpress.com/


Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:36 pm
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Two "popes"?

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... popes.html

Even Rorate calls them both popes.

If you can't have a good pope, have lots of 'em?

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Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:14 pm
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Along with Spanish freemasonry, the masonic sect in Italy has also expressed it's support of Bergoglio in a communiqué, convinced that he is going to make big changes.

They sure are fond of him.

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Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:37 pm
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FWIW - Roman exorcist tells Pope to beware a quick death and the Freemasons -

http://cathcon.blogspot.com/2013/03/roman-exorcist-tells-pope-to-beware.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FZMRq+%28Catholic+Church+Conservation%29


Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:30 pm
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That Amorth fellow is an odd-ball!

As if the Masons would be against a revival of the central ideas of the sect of the Fraticelli, which seems to be Casual Frank's agenda.

The Fraticelli too used the glorious name of Francis as cover for the heresies of "a poor church for the poor" dressed with ostentatious humility. There's also a hint of the other main tenet of the Fraticelli (which was in turn a resurrection of a Donatist idea) that only "the pure" could command and absolve validly. I say a hint, because it's sufficiently clear that Frank doesn't believe in sin as such, so absolution could not have much meaning to him, however he does seem to be setting up a dynamic in which his only title to obedience is his personal "goodness." That is one clear implication of his trashing of all of the traditions of the papacy, especially those which speak of divinely bestowed authority over others, coupled with his various showy actions which are designed to attract attention and admiration. He's saying, "Follow me because I'm 'umble and unpretentious, and I have such a big heart!"

We enter very strange times!

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Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:21 pm
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Benedictus wrote:
Along with Spanish freemasonry, the masonic sect in Italy has also expressed it's support of Bergoglio in a communiqué, convinced that he is going to make big changes.

They sure are fond of him.


BTW here is the link http://www.traditioninaction.org/Progre ... g-GOI.html

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Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:32 pm
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What really scares me is I think it possible that some trads who aren't well grounded in apologetics may fall for this false charity and false humility.


Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:51 pm
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Recusant wrote:
What really scares me is I think it possible that some trads who aren't well grounded in apologetics may fall for this false charity and false humility.


Frankly, I don't see how Franky could deceive any reasonable creature, let alone the elect.

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Last edited by Edward T. Horan III on Sun May 04, 2014 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:15 am
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Edward T. Horan III wrote:
Recusant wrote:
What really scares me is I think it possible that some trads who aren't well grounded in apologetics may fall for this false charity and false humility.


Frankly, I don't see how Franky (I guess he's the best that Satan could vomit up from the Lower Hells) could deceive any reasonable creature, let alone the elect.



I thought so too and then I read this thread: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Arden ... opic=12092


Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:33 am
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Recusant wrote:
I thought so too and then I read this thread: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Ignis_Arden ... opic=12092


Lance, "Laboure" is not really a trad, is she? I had the impression that she flip-flops from Novus to Tridentine etc. As for what Binx and needleduck said at the end there, about liking his face and his manner, I agree with them. I also agree with them on Ratzinger's evil looking mug. It's always astonished me that anybody can think of him as lovable. He has an awful look about him, really quite creepy. Francis is a whole different kettle of fish. Genuinely charming, an attractive character. Kindly face, nice smile. Makes one want to think well of him. Which makes him more dangerous in one way.

But I can't see trads getting suckered by him. He's too obviously a heretic. Imagine if it was a friendly looking bloke like him that was doing the whole faux-trad thing that The Rat was doing!

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Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:38 am
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I suppose that the biggest danger is for those who are still stuck in the novus ordo, who have been taught to think with their emotions (one of modernism's nastiest effects) and refuse to accept that there is anything wrong with the kind of blatant acts that Bergoglio has been making himself notorious with.

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Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:53 am
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As to whether trads will be fooled by him, I would hope not. My greater concern would be for the indulters who may be working their way toward being a 'true trad' but fall into Francis' trappings. Something like this: http://www.taylormarshall.com/2013/03/traditionalists-and-pope-francis-can-we.html

What a crazy time to live in, but I know that God put us here now for a good reason!
Hold fast.


Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:22 pm
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John Lane wrote:
Lance, "Laboure" is not really a trad, is she? I had the impression that she flip-flops from Novus to Tridentine etc. As for what Binx and needleduck said at the end there, about liking his face and his manner, I agree with them. I also agree with them on Ratzinger's evil looking mug. It's always astonished me that anybody can think of him as lovable. He has an awful look about him, really quite creepy. Francis is a whole different kettle of fish. Genuinely charming, an attractive character. Kindly face, nice smile. Makes one want to think well of him. Which makes him more dangerous in one way.

But I can't see trads getting suckered by him. He's too obviously a heretic. Imagine if it was a friendly looking bloke like him that was doing the whole faux-trad thing that The Rat was doing!

Interesting point. Perhaps that's because The Rat is sneakier and more evil than Casual Frank. The Rat, after all, was actively trying to sucker trads into the Novus Ordo with his motu proprio and his courting of the SSPX. In his writings, he actively tries to mix Catholic belief with modernism into a whole new witch's brew. It's no surprise his eyes and smile look like that.

Casual Frank, OTOH, doesn't seem to be into all that. He's the leader of the Novus Ordo sect, and what trads believe is not important to him. He could just as well be the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury; trads are a foreign religion to him, and none of his concern.


Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:55 pm
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Larie wrote:
What a crazy time to live in, but I know that God put us here now for a good reason!

It would really be nice to know what God's reason(s) are.

I have to re-read this once in a while:

"NOTES from FEE
July 1992

The FOUNDATION FOR ECONOMIC EDUCATION, INC.

IRVINGTON-ON-HUDSON, NEW YORK


ISAIAH’S JOB

Albert J. Nock

ONE EVENING last autumn, I sat long hours with a European acquaintance while he expounded a politico-economic doctrine which seemed sound as a nut and in which I could find no defect. At the end, he said with great earnestness: “I have a mission to the masses. I feel that I am called to get the ear of the people. I shall devote the rest of my life to spreading my doctrine far and wide among the populace. What do you think?”
An embarrassing question in any case, and doubly so under the circumstances, because my acquaintance is a very learned man, one of the three or four really first—class minds that Europe produced in his generation; and naturally I, as one of the unlearned, was inclined to regard his lightest word with reverence amounting to awe…
I referred him to the story of the prophet Isaiah. I shall paraphrase the story in our common speech since it has to be pieced out from various sources.

THE PROPHET'S career began at the end of King Uzziah’s reign, say about 740 B.C. This reign was uncommonly long, almost half a century, and apparently prosperous. It was one of those prosperous reigns, however—like the reign of Marcus Aurelius at Rome, or the administration of Eubulus at Athens, or of Mr. Coolidge at Washington—where at the end the prosperity suddenly peters out and things go by the board with a resounding crash.
In the year of Uzziah’s death, the Lord commissioned the prophet to go out and warn the people of the wrath to come. “Tell them what a worthless lot they are,” He said. “Tell them what is wrong, and why, and what is going to happen unless they have a change of heart and straighten up. Don’t mince matters. Make it clear that they are positively down to their last chance. Give it to them good and strong and keep on giving it to them. I suppose perhaps I ought to tell you,” He added, “that it won’t do any good. The official class and their intelligentsia will turn up their noses at you, and the masses will not even listen. They will all keep on in their own ways until they carry everything down to destruction, and you will probably be lucky if you get out with your life.”
Isaiah had been very willing to take on the job — in fact, he had asked for it — but the prospect put a new face on the situation. It raised the obvious question: Why, if all that were so — if the enterprise were to be a failure from the start — was there any sense in starting it?
“Ah,” the Lord said, “you do not get the point. There is a Remnant there that you know nothing about. They are obscure, unorganized, inarticulate, each one rubbing along as best he can. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society; and meanwhile, your preaching will reassure them and keep them hanging on. Your job is to take care of the Remnant, so be off now and set about it.”

WHAT DO WE mean by “the masses”, and what by the “Remnant”?As the word masses is commonly used, it suggests agglomerations of poor and underprivileged people, laboring people, proletarians. But it means nothing like that; it means simply the majority. The mass-man is one who has neither the force of intellect to apprehend the principles issuing in what we know as the humane life, nor the force of character to ad-here to those principles steadily and strictly as laws of conduct; and because such people make up the great, the overwhelming, majority of mankind, they are called collectively the masses. The line of differentiation between the masses and the Remnant is set invariably by quality, not by circumstance. The Remnant are those who by force of intellect are able to apprehend these principles, and by force of character are able, at least measurably, to cleave to them. The masses are those who are unable to do either.
The picture which Isaiah presents of the Judean masses is most unfavorable. In his view, the mass-man—be he high or be he lowly, rich or poor, prince or pauper—gets off very badly. He appears as not only weak-minded and weak-willed, but as by con-sequence knavish, arrogant, grasping, dissipated, unprincipled, unscrupulous…

AS THINGS NOW stand, Isaiah’s job seems rather to go begging- Everyone with a message nowadays is, like my venerable European friend, eager to take it to the masses. His first, last, and only thought is of mass-acceptance and mass-approval. His great care is to put his doctrine in such shape as will capture the masses’ attention and interest.
The main trouble with this [mass-man approach] is its reaction upon the mission itself. It necessitates an opportunist sophistication of one’s doctrine, which profoundly alters its character and reduces it to a mere placebo. If, say, you are a preacher, you wish to attract as large a congregation as you can, which means an appeal to the masses; and this, in turn, means adapting the terms of your message to the order of intellect and character that the masses exhibit. If you are an educator, say with a college on your hands, you wish to get as many students as possible, and you whittle down your requirements accordingly. If a writer, you aim at getting many readers; if a publisher, many purchasers; if a philosopher, many disciples; if a reformer, many converts; if a musician, many auditors; and so on. But as we see on all sides, in the realization of these several desires the prophetic message is so heavily adulterated with trivialities, in every instance, that its effect on the masses is merely to harden them in their sins. Meanwhile, the Remnant, aware of this adulteration and of the desires that prompt it, turn their backs on the prophet and will have nothing to do with him or his message.
Isaiah, on the other hand, worked under no such disabilities, he preached to the masses only in the sense that he preached publicly. Anyone who liked might listen; anyone who liked might pass by. He knew that the Remnant would listen…

THE REMNANT want only the best you have, whatever that may be. Give them that, and they are satisfied; you have nothing more to worry about. In a sense, nevertheless, as I have said, it is not a rewarding job. . . . A prophet of the Remnant will not grow purse-proud on the financial returns from his work, nor is it likely that he will get any great renown out of it. Isaiah’s case was exceptional to this second rule, and there are others — but not many.
It may be thought, then, that while taking care of the Remnant is no doubt a good job, it is not an especially interesting job because it is as a rule so poorly paid. I have my doubts about this. There are other compensations to be got out of a job besides money and notoriety, and some of them seem substantial enough to be attractive. Many jobs which do not pay well are yet profoundly interesting, as, for instance, the job of the research student in the sciences is said to be; and the job of looking after the Remnant seems to me, as I have surveyed it for many years from my seat in the grandstand, to be as interesting as any that can he found in the world.
What chiefly makes it so, I think, is that in any given society the Remnant are always so largely an unknown quantity. You do not know, and will never know, more than two things about them. You can be sure of those—dead sure, as our phrase is—but you will never be able to make even a respectable guess at anything else. You do not know, and will never know, who the Remnant are, nor where they are, nor how many of them there are, nor what they are doing or will do. Two things you know, and no more: first, that they exist; second, that they will find you. Except for these two certainties, working for the Remnant means working in impenetrable darkness; and this, I should say, is just the condition calculated most effectively to pique the interest of any prophet who is properly gifted with the imagination, insight, and intellectual curiosity necessary to a successful pursuit of his trade.

THE FASCINATION—as well as the despair—of the historian, as he looks back upon Isaiah’s Jewry, upon Plato’s Athens, or upon Rome of the Antonines, is the hope of discovering and laying bare the “substratum of right-thinking and well-doing” which he knows must have existed somewhere in those societies because no kind of collective life can possibly go on without it. He finds tantalizing intimations of it here and there in many places, as in the Greek Anthology, in the scrapbook of Aulus Cellius, in the poems of Ausonius, and in the brief and touching tribute, Bene merenti, bestowed upon the unknown occupants of Roman tombs. But these are vague and fragmentary; they lead him nowhere in his search for some kind of measure of this substratum, but merely testify to what he already knew a priori — that the substratum did somewhere exist. Where it was, how substantial it was, what its power of self-assertion and resistance was — of all this they tell him nothing.
Similarly, when the historian of two thousand years hence, or two hundred years, looks over the available testimony to the quality of our civilization and tries to get any kind of clear, competent evidence concerning the substratum of right-thinking and well-doing which he knows must have been here, he will have a devil of a time finding it. When he has assembled all he can get and has made even a minimum allowance for speciousness, vagueness, and confusion of motive, he will sadly acknowledge that his net result is simply nothing. A Remnant were here, building a substratum like coral insects; so much he knows, but he will find nothing to put him on the track of who and where and how many there were and what their work was like.

CONCERNING ALL this, too, the prophet of the present knows precisely as much and as little as the historian of the future; and that, I repeat, is what makes his job seem to me so profoundly interesting. One of the most suggestive episodes recounted in the Bible is that of a prophet’s attempt — the only attempt of the kind on record, I believe — to count up the Remnant. Elijah had fled from persecution into the desert, where the Lord presently overhauled him and asked what he was doing so far away from his job. He said that he was running away, not because he was a coward, but because all the Remnant had been killed off except himself. He had got away only by the skin of his teeth, and, he being now all the Remnant there was, if he were killed the True Faith would go flat. The Lord replied that he need not worry about that, for even without him the True Faith could probably manage to squeeze along somehow if it had to; “and as for your figures on the Remnant,” He said, “I don’t mind telling you that there are seven thousand of them back there in Israel whom it seems you have not heard of, but you may take My word for it that there they are.”
At that time, probably the population of Israel could not have run to much more than a million or so; and a Remnant of seven thousand out of a million is a highly encouraging percentage for any prophet. With seven thousand of the boys on his side, there was no great reason for Elijah to feel lonesome; and incidentally, that would be something for the modern prophet of the Remnant to think of when he has a touch of the blues. But the main point is that if Elijah the Prophet could not make a closer guess on the number of the Remnant than he made when he missed it by seven thousand, anyone else who tackled the problem would only waste his time.

THE OTHER certainty which the prophet of the Remnant may always have is that the Remnant will find him. He may rely on that with absolute assurance. They will find him without his doing anything about it; in fact, if he tries to do anything about it, he is pretty sure to put them off. He does not need to advertise for them nor resort to any schemes of publicity to get their attention. If he is a preacher or a public speaker, for example, he may be quite indifferent to going on show at receptions, getting his picture printed in the newspapers, or furnishing autobiographical material for publication on the side of "human interest.” If a writer, he need not make a point of attending any pink teas, autographing books at wholesale, nor entering into any specious freemasonry with reviewers.
All this and much more of the same order lies in the regular and necessary routine laid down for the prophet of the masses. It is, and must be, part of the great general technique of getting the mass-man's ear –– or as our vigorous and excellent publicist, Mr. H. L. Mencken, puts it, the technique of boob–bumping. The prophet of the Remnant is not bound to this technique. He may be quite sure that the Remnant will make their own way to him without any adventitious aids; and not only so, but if they find him employing such aids, as I said, it is ten to one that they will smell a rat in them and will sheer off.
The certainty that the Remnant will find him, however, leaves the prophet as much in the dark as ever, as helpless as ever in the matter of putting any estimate of any kind upon the Remnant; for, as appears in the case of Elijah, he remains ignorant of who they are that have found him or where they are or how many. They do not write in and tell him about it, after the manner of those who admire the vedettes of Hollywood, nor yet do they seek him out and attach themselves to his person. They are not that kind. They take his message much as drivers take the directions on a roadside signboard — that is, with very little thought about the signboard, beyond being gratefully glad that it happened to be there, but with very serious thought about the directions.
This impersonal attitude of the Remnant wonderfully enhances the interest of the imaginative prophet’s job. Once in a while, just about often enough to keep his intellectual curiosity in good working order, he will quite accidentally come upon some distinct reflection of his own message in an unsuspected quarter. This enables him to entertain himself in his leisure moments with agreeable speculations about the course his message may have taken in reaching that particular quarter, and about what came of it after it got there. Most interesting of all are those instances, if one could only run them down (but one may always speculate about them), where the recipient himself no longer knows where nor when nor from whom he got the message — or even where, as sometimes happens, he has forgotten that he got it anywhere and imagines that it is all a self-sprung idea of his own.

SUCH INSTANCES as these are probably not infrequent, for, without presuming to enroll ourselves among the Remnant, we can all no doubt remember having found ourselves suddenly under the influence of an idea, the source of which we cannot possibly identify. “It came to us afterward,” as we say; that is, we are aware of it only after it has shot up full-grown in our minds, leaving us quite ignorant of how and when and by what agency it was planted there and left to germinate. It seems highly probable that the prophets’ message often takes some such course with the Remnant.
If, for example, you are a writer or a speaker or a preacher, you put forth an idea which lodges in the Unbewusstsein of a casual member of the Remnant and sticks fast there. For some time it is inert; then it begins to fret and fester until presently it invades the man's unconscious mind, and, as one might say, corrupts it. Meanwhile, he has quite forgotten how he came by the idea in the first instance, and then perhaps thinks he has invented it; and in those circumstances, the most interesting thing of all is that you never know what the pressure of that idea will make him do.

For these reasons it appears to me that Isaiah’s job is not only good but also extremely interesting; and especially so at the present time when nobody is doing it. If I were young and had the notion of embarking in the prophetical line, I would certainly take up this branch of the business; and therefore I have no hesitation about recommending it as a career for anyone in that position. It offers an open field, with no competition; our civilization so completely neglects and disallows the Remnant that anyone going in with an eye single to their service might pretty well count on getting all the trade there is.

Even assuming that there is some social salvage to be screened out of the masses, even assuming that the testimony of history to their social value is a little too sweeping, that it depresses hopelessness a little too far, one must yet perceive, I think, that the masses have prophets enough and to spare. Even admitting that in the teeth of history that hope of the human race may not be quite exclusively centered in the Remnant, one must perceive that they have social value enough to entitle them to some measure of prophetic encouragement and consolation, and that our civilization allows them none whatever. Every prophetic voice is addressed to the masses, and to them alone; the voice of the pulpit, the voice of education, the voice of politics, of literature, drama, journalism – all these are directed towards the masses exclusively, and they marshal the masses in the way that they are going.

One might suggest, therefore, that aspiring prophetical talent may well turn to another field. Sat patriae Priamoque datum – whatever obligation of the kind may be due the masses is already monstrously overpaid. So long as the masses are taking up the tabernacle of Moloch and Chiun, their images, and following the star of their god Buncombe, they will have no lack of prophets to point the way that leadeth to the More Abundant Life; and hence a few of those who feel the prophetic afflatus might do better to apply themselves to serving the Remnant. It is a good job, an interesting job, much more interesting than serving the masses; and moreover it is the only job in our whole civilization, as far as I know, that offers a virgin field."

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:15 am
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