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 Infallibility of Universal Catechisms 
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:53 am
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New post Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
I made a statement on a forum thread the other day that "universal catechisms" (of the Church) are infallible; in response to another poster who had stated that the Catechism of the Council of Trent contained errors as regards B.O.D. Somebody responded to my statement, by posting the statement from the introduction in TAN's edition of the Catechism of the Council of Trent, stating that the CCT was not infallible by considered equal to a dogmatic Encyclical and concludes: "Its teaching is not infallible; but it holds a place between approved catechisms and what is de fide."
Can anybody here help me find a quotes from authoritative sources which mention the infallibility of universal catechisms?
Thank you.

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Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:03 pm
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Michael Wilson wrote:
I made a statement on a forum thread the other day that "universal catechisms" (of the Church) are infallible; in response to another poster who had stated that the Catechism of the Council of Trent contained errors as regards B.O.D. Somebody responded to my statement, by posting the statement from the introduction in TAN's edition of the Catechism of the Council of Trent, stating that the CCT was not infallible by considered equal to a dogmatic Encyclical and concludes: "Its teaching is not infallible; but it holds a place between approved catechisms and what is de fide."
Can anybody here help me find a quotes from authoritative sources which mention the infallibility of universal catechisms?
Thank you.


Michael, it appears from the following article that even though the " Catechism of the Catholic Church" contains many infallible teachings it is not in and of itself an infallible document as stated by the Bishops themselves.
As for other universal catechisms I am still looking. I know they can be infallible under the "Ordinary Universal Magisterium" but As you can tell there are criteria other than just being called a universal catechisms.

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachi ... church.cfm


Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:08 am
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Michael Wilson wrote:
I made a statement on a forum thread the other day that "universal catechisms" (of the Church) are infallible; in response to another poster who had stated that the Catechism of the Council of Trent contained errors as regards B.O.D.

On whose authority was this determined? That of this "other poster" ? Or the so-called "brothers" Dimond, by any chance? Or someone in league with them?

I simply don't believe that statement has any basis in truth.

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:15 pm
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Yes, its the Dimond bros. Who are the source of the controversy.

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:02 pm
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
St. Justin,
Thank you for the link. I'm almost certain that I have read such a statement; but where? Too many gaps in my memory.
I will keep looking for the "silver bullet".

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Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:06 pm
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Michael Wilson wrote:
Yes, its the Dimond bros. Who are the source of the controversy.

Ah. I thought so. It sounded just like them.

I suppose you know some of their history?

The first and most important to my mind is that they are not now and never have been "religious" of any kind. They have never received any authorization or acceptance into any kind of monastic order by any valid bishop. Their "brotherhood" (other than by blood) is purely on the basis of their own decision. They are simply two more of the "false prophets" we have been warned about.

Secondly, although they have no thorough understanding nor knowledge of Latin, they have the audacity to presume that their translation of the section concerning Baptism in the Catechism of the Council of Trent was "mistranslated" several hundred years ago, and was only discovered by the Dimond brothers in this century.

What complete hubris!

Their pride is only exceeded by their arrogance.

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:48 am
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Thank you Ken,
I agree with what you stated about the D. Bros. I was involved in a long discussion on I.A. about B.O.B.-B.O.D. With several posters; their main contention was that since Msgr. Lefebvre believed in implicit B.O.D. He was a heretic. One of my adversaries must have been looking for material on the web to counter the quotes from the Catechism of the Council of Trent, and found the Dimond Bros. He posted a couple of their articles criticizing the "errors" in the Catechism. After I. A. closed, He just recently joined the Archbishop Lefebvre forum and once again posted the same charge (he was suspended from the forum, and then quit). I wanted the quote about universal catechisms, to counter another member who has complained about the banning of said person.

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"The World Must Conform to Our Lord, and not He to it." Fr. Dennis Fahey C.S.S.P.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:28 am
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Mr. Wilson: I must heartily commend you on your efforts, and I must also thank God there are a few men like you.

In addition, your statement from Fr. Fahey is completely true and is what we should all live by, and strive to achieve in the world.

Thank you.

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Kenneth G. Gordon


Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:57 am
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Thank you Ken,
And the same to you.
God Bless.

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"The World Must Conform to Our Lord, and not He to it." Fr. Dennis Fahey C.S.S.P.


Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:39 pm
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Michael,

This is from McHugh and Callan, on the Catechism of Trent:

Quote:
AUTHORITY AND EXCELLENCE OF THE ROMAN CATECHISM

The Roman Catechism is unlike any other summary of Christian doctrine, not only because it is intended for the use of priests in their preaching, but also because it enjoys a unique authority among manuals. In the first place, as already explained, it was issued by the express command of the Ecumenical Council of Trent, which also ordered that it be translated into the vernacular of different nations to be used as a standard source for preaching. Moreover it subsequently received the unqualified approval of many Sovereign Pontiffs. Not to speak of Pius IV who did so much to bring the work to completion, and of St. Pius V under whom it was finished, published and repeatedly commended, Gregory XIII, as Possevino testifies, so highly esteemed it that he desired even books of Canon Law to be written in accordance with its contents. In his Bull of June 14, 1761, Clement XIII said that the Catechism contains a clear explanation of all that is necessary for salvation and useful for the faithful, that it was composed with great care and industry and has been highly praised by all, that by it in former times the faith was strengthened, and that no other catechism can be compared with it. He concluded then, that the Roman Pontiffs offered this work to pastors as a norm of Catholic teaching and discipline so that there might be uniformity and harmony in the instructions of all. Nor have the Sovereign Pontiffs in our own days been less laudatory of the Catechism. Pope Leo XIII, in an Encyclical Letter of September 8, 1899, to the Bishops and clergy of France, recommended two books which all seminarians should possess and constantly read and study, namely, the Summa Theologica of St. Thomas and "that golden book," the Catechismus ad Parochos. Regarding the latter work he wrote: "This work is remarkable at once for the richness and exactness of its doctrine, and for the elegance of its style; it is a precious summary of all theology, both dogmatic and moral. He who understands it well, will have always at his service those aids by which a priest is enabled to preach with fruit, to acquit himself worthily of the important ministry of the confessional and of the direction of souls, and will be in a position to refute the objections of unbelievers."

Likewise Pius X in his Encyclical Acerbo nimis of April 15, 1905, declared that adults, no less than children, need religious instruction, especially in these days. And hence he prescribed that pastors and all who have care of souls should give catechetical instruction to the faithful in simple language, and in a way suited to the capacity of their hearers, and that for this purpose they should use the Catechism of the Council of Trent Still more recently, on February 14, 1921, speaking in the name of Benedict XV, Cardinal Gasparri, Papal Secretary of State, thus wrote to the Archbishop of New York relative to the latter's Program for A Parochial Course of Doctrinal Instructions, based on the Catechism: "It is superfluous to add that the value of the work is enhanced by the fact that it has been planned and executed in perfect harmony with the admirable Catechism of the Council of Trent."

Besides the Supreme Pontiffs who have extolled and recommended the Catechism, so many Councils have enjoined its use that it would be impossible here to enumerate them all. Within a few years after its first appearance great numbers of provincial and diocesan synods had already made its use obligatory. Of these the Preface to the Paris edition of 1893 mentions eighteen held before the year 1595. In five different Councils convened at Milan St. Charles Borromeo ordered that the Catechism should be studied in seminaries, discussed in the conferences of the clergy, and explained by pastors to their people on occasion of the administration of the Sacraments. In short, synods repeatedly prescribed that the clergy should make such frequent use of the Catechism as not only to be thoroughly familiar with its contents, but almost have it by heart.

In addition to Popes, and Councils, many Cardinals, Bishops and other ecclesiastics, distinguished for their learning and sanctity, vied with one another in eulogizing the Catechism of Trent. Among other things they have said that not since the days of the Apostles has there been produced in a single volume so complete and practical a summary of Christian doctrine as this Catechism, and that, after the Sacred Scriptures, there is no work that can be read with greater safety and profit.

In particular, Cardinal Valerius, the friend of St. Charles Borromeo, wrote of the Catechism: "This work contains all that is needful for the instruction of the faithful; and it is written with such order, clearness and majesty that through it we seem to hear holy Mother the Church herself, taught by the Holy Ghost, speaking to us.... It was composed by order of the Fathers of Trent under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and was published by the authority of the Vicar of Christ."

Salmanticenses, the great Carmelite commentators on St. Thomas, paid the following high tribute to the Catechism: "The authority of this Catechism has always been of the greatest in the Church, because it was composed by the command of the Council of Trent, because its authors were men of highest learning, and because it was approved only after the severest scrutiny by Popes Pius V and Gregory XIII, and has been recommended in nearly all the Councils that have been held since the Council of Trent."

Antonio Possevino, an illustrious Jesuit, and the preceptor of St. Francis de Sales, said: "The Catechism of the Council of Trent was inspired by the Holy Ghost."

In his immortal Apologia Cardinal Newman writes: "The Catechism of the Council of Trent was drawn up for the express purpose of providing preachers with subjects for their sermons; and, as my whole work has been a defense of myself, I may here say that I rarely preach a sermon but I go to this beautiful and complete Catechism to get both my matter and my doctrine."

"Its merits," says Dr. Donovan, "have been recognized by the universal Church. The first rank which has been awarded the Imitation among spiritual books, has been unanimously given to the Roman Catechism as a compendium of Catholic theology. It was the result of the aggregate labors of the most distinguished of the Fathers of Trent, . . . and is therefore stamped with the impress of superior worth."

Doctor John Hogan, the present Rector of the Irish College in Rome, writes thus: "The Roman Catechism is a work of exceptional authority. At the very least it has the same authority as a dogmatic Encyclical, -- it is an authoritative exposition of Catholic doctrine given forth, and guaranteed to be orthodox by the Catholic Church and her supreme head on earth. The compilation of it was the work of various individuals; but the result of their combined labors was accepted by the Church as a precious abridgment of dogmatic and moral theology. Official documents have occasionally been issued by Popes to explain certain points of Catholic teaching to individuals, or to local Christian communities; whereas the Roman Catechism comprises practically the whole body of Christian doctrine, and is addressed to the whole Church. Its teaching is not infallible; but it holds a place between approved catechisms and what is de fide."

We are enabled to realize from the foregoing testimonies how invaluable is the treasure we possess in the Tridentine Catechism. It is a Vade Mecum for every priest and ecclesiastical student. In it the latter will find a recapitulation of all the more important and necessary doctrines he has learned throughout his theological course; while to the priest it is not only a review of his former studies, but an ever-present and reliable guide in his work as pastor, preacher, counselor, and spiritual director of souls. Moreover, to the educated layman, whether Catholic or non-Catholic, who desires to study an authoritative statement of Catholic doctrine, no better book could be recommended than this official manual; for in its pages will be found the whole substance of Catholic doctrine and practice, arranged in order, expounded with perspicuity, and sustained by argument at once convincing and persuasive.

Finally, it can be said without fear of exaggeration that there is no single-volume work which so combines solidity of doctrine and practical usefulness with unction of treatment as does this truly marvelous Catechism. From beginning to end it not only reflects the light of faith, but it also radiates, to an unwonted degree, the warmth of devotion and piety. In its exposition of the Creed and the Sacraments, while dealing with the profoundest mysteries, it is full of thoughts and reflections the most fervent and inspiring. The part on the Decalogue, which might well be called a treatise on ascetical theology, teaches us in words burning with zeal both what we are to avoid and what we are to do to keep the Commandments of God. In the fourth, and last part o this beautiful work we have what is doubtless the most sublime and heavenly exposition of the doctrine of prayer ever written.

The Roman Catechism is, therefore, a handbook of dogmatic and moral theology, a confessor's guide, a book of exposition for the preacher, and a choice directory of the spiritual life for pastor and flock alike. With a view, consequently, to make it more readily available for these high purposes among English-speaking peoples this new translation has been prepared and is herewith respectfully submitted to its readers.

JOHN A. MCHUGH, O. P.

CHARLES J. CALLAN, O. P.

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Yours in JMJ,
Mike


Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:31 am
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New post Re: Infallibility of Universal Catechisms
Thanks I guess my memory is faulty; I don't know where I got that idea in my head.

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"The World Must Conform to Our Lord, and not He to it." Fr. Dennis Fahey C.S.S.P.


Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:19 pm
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