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November Indulgences
http://strobertbellarmine.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1741
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Author:  James Francis [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  November Indulgences

Dear all,

I wonder if anyone can clarify a couple of questions for me regarding the getting of indulgences in the next couple of weeks.

1. "Toties quoties"- these indulgences can be received as many times as one visits a Church and performs the required devotions. It suffices to exit the church and re-enter it to make a subsequent visit. My question regards the case in which the church is locked (as Novus Ordo controlled churches often are): if one cannot actually go through the door of the Church, is one unable to gain these indulgences? Can they be gained standing outside the door of the church?

2. The indulgences which call for a visit to a cemetery: must the cemetery be a Catholic one or will any cemetery suffice?

Any light on this would be welcome!

Author:  TKGS [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

1, I would think the Church has to be a Catholic Church. I doubt that the indulgence can be obtained walking into to Lutheran church or an Anglican church, or one of their counterparts, a Conciliar church.

2. I've never seen any requirement that the cemetery specifically be a Catholic cemetery. In fact, this would be impossible in many places.

Author:  Recusant [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

TKGS wrote:
1, I would think the Church has to be a Catholic Church. I doubt that the indulgence can be obtained walking into to Lutheran church or an Anglican church, or one of their counterparts, a Conciliar church.

2. I've never seen any requirement that the cemetery specifically be a Catholic cemetery. In fact, this would be impossible in many places.



1. Why couldn't one go into an NO church to satisfy the requirements for the indulgence? It seems to me that as long as the Church hasn't been desecrated and was consecrated prior to say 1968 (not sure what I would consider the cut off date to be) the indulgence would still be attached to the church. No? As a matter of fact I would almost think that you are more likely to obtain the indulgence than if you were to go into a traditional chapel.

2. No, I believe that the cemetery must be a consecrated Catholic cemetery that hasn't been desecrated.

BTW: According to Father Heribert Jone, if the church is locked, you may say the prayers outside.

Author:  TKGS [ Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

Recusant wrote:
TKGS wrote:
1, I would think the Church has to be a Catholic Church. I doubt that the indulgence can be obtained walking into to Lutheran church or an Anglican church, or one of their counterparts, a Conciliar church.

2. I've never seen any requirement that the cemetery specifically be a Catholic cemetery. In fact, this would be impossible in many places.



1. Why couldn't one go into an NO church to satisfy the requirements for the indulgence? It seems to me that as long as the Church hasn't been desecrated and was consecrated prior to say 1968 (not sure what I would consider the cut off date to be) the indulgence would still be attached to the church. No? As a matter of fact I would almost think that you are more likely to obtain the indulgence than if you were to go into a traditional chapel.

2. No, I believe that the cemetery must be a consecrated Catholic cemetery that hasn't been desecrated.

BTW: According to Father Heribert Jone, if the church is locked, you may say the prayers outside.


A Novus Ordo church is desecrated every time the Novus Ordo is celebrated by a layman acting as a priest. No? The problem in my mind (which, of course, is only a problem for me) is that the Novus Ordo religion is simply not Catholic though I recognize that there are still many Catholics unwittingly believing it to be. It would simply not even occur to me to go into a Conciliar church for such a purpose.

Does the Novus Ordo even recognize this indulgence? One thing I know is that I never heard of it at all before I found tradition and I was in a number of very "conservative" parishes.

As for the cemetery, I've been looking in several places on the internet and I can't find any reference to a "Catholic Cemetery". Anyone have a reference that does? I wonder what would constitute "desecration" of a cemetery.

Author:  Admin [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

Daniel, I agree with Lance, and we act on that basis every year.

The "desecration" of a Novus Ordo church building is a theological fact but not one established in law, I think. But I agree this is a matter of legitimate dispute. The point is that absent resorting to the formerly-Catholic churches for these indulgences, there is no other possibility of obtaining them. So it's that or nothing. There's no way that a traditionalist chapel would meet the requirements.

On the cemetary question, the Catholic section of any public cemetary is consecrated ground, and constitutes a cemetary under the Code.

Author:  ClemensMaria [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

John Lane wrote:
Daniel, I agree with Lance, and we act on that basis every year.

The "desecration" of a Novus Ordo church building is a theological fact but not one established in law, I think. But I agree this is a matter of legitimate dispute. The point is that absent resorting to the formerly-Catholic churches for these indulgences, there is no other possibility of obtaining them. So it's that or nothing. There's no way that a traditionalist chapel would meet the requirements.

On the cemetary question, the Catholic section of any public cemetary is consecrated ground, and constitutes a cemetary under the Code.


Thanks to all of you for raising these questions. I have one which has been nagging me for 2 years. When my father passed away two years ago, I convinced my Mother (who was NO at the time) to bury him in a Catholic cemetery rather than in the local town cemetery. The Catholic cemetery was consecrated something like 100 years ago. However, my father was buried in a new field which was added 20 or 30 years ago. Does each new field also have to be consecrated or does the consecration of the original (smaller) land area of the cemetery suffice? I have no idea if the new field was owned all along by the cemetery or if it was purchased 20 or 30 years ago.

Author:  Admin [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

And I can't spell cemetery! :)

Author:  Jorge Armendariz [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: November Indulgences

John Lane wrote:
Daniel, I agree with Lance, and we act on that basis every year.

The "desecration" of a Novus Ordo church building is a theological fact but not one established in law, I think. But I agree this is a matter of legitimate dispute. The point is that absent resorting to the formerly-Catholic churches for these indulgences, there is no other possibility of obtaining them. So it's that or nothing. There's no way that a traditionalist chapel would meet the requirements.

On the cemetary question, the Catholic section of any public cemetary is consecrated ground, and constitutes a cemetary under the Code.


Interesting you mention this, but the SSPX did recently celebrate in a Cathedral of the Novus Ordo. The most solemn mass with probably well over 50 or more priest present. It was for the feast of Christ the King, here it is for anyone interested http://vimeo.com/110112172.

Now if anyone can confirm whether they used the Cranmer table or if the SSPX put their own non defiled altar to celebrate the mass. Just curious, I am presuming that they would not be so crass as to celebrate in a regular Novus ordo altar defiled by the new mass. What is the practice of the SSPX when they have these sorts of masses, for example when they go to Chartres Cathedral as they did in the year 2000, and other years. Pilgrimages in the Holy Land etc...

I know when a long time ago when I was in 7th grade, and we had a summer field trip to the San Antonio missions in Texas. Father Timothy Pfeiffer celebrated mass on the old stone altars that were there, but all the altars where the mass was celebrated was abandoned places, so who knows if it is a common practice for Novus ordo laymen to simulate the new mass there.

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