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Sedevacantism Lite???
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Author:  abragers [ Tue May 30, 2006 12:22 am ]
Post subject:  Sedevacantism Lite???

I have a general question (or problem) regarding Sedevacantism I'm hoping others in this forum can help me work through. Perhaps the title of this thread is not the best; maybe Sedevacantism for Dummies would better capture where I'm headed.

As background - my first substantial exposure to the SV position was in the Ferrara articles in The Remnant. Although he tends to use 100 words where 10 would suffice, I agreed with the general arguments in the articles. With Father Cekada's rebuttal however, I realized that Ferrara was in a pretty shaky spot. After reading more at sgg.org and traditionalmass.org, I felt myself coming round to the SV position.

The problem I'm having is that the major discussions (both pro & con on other forums) revolve heavily around canon law, opinions of theologians, etc. Now, I'm a layman; I'm no expert. I do not have access to these primary sources, nor do I feel qualified to evaluate them if I did have them on hand. Compare this situation to the Traditionalist position on the new mass. There are numerous tracts available that explain the problems in a straightforward manner ("Why-not-the-NO for Dummies). Used books published before Vatican II - for laymen - go into detail about the Traditional Mass, so a comparison to the new mass by a layman yields a straightforward understanding of why the new mass should be avoided. This seems to be lacking for the SV position.

I'm not saying there has to be 100 titles at TAN on why SV is the way to go. It just seems that there isn't a simple way to argue for the SV position. I don't want to ramble on. Any suggestions? Is there a systematic way I should take?

Author:  Vince Sheridan [ Tue May 30, 2006 1:08 am ]
Post subject: 

Pax Christi !

Dear abragers,

Welcome to the the fourm !

In order to get a basic understanding of the sede position I highly recommend these 3 articles.


First;

http://www.cmri.org/sedevac.htm This is a general over veiw by Mark A. Pivarunas CMRI

Second, the clear and precise brief of the Sede position by John Lane

http://www.sedevacantist.com/sedebrief.html

Third, is also by John Lane , this articel ask non-Sede Cleric's to consider the basic principles and citations of the Sede position.

http://www.sedevacantist.com/considerations.html

Author:  Crazy Cat [ Tue May 30, 2006 2:19 am ]
Post subject: 

There is a booklet entitled "Traditionalists, Infallibility, and the Pope" written about 10 years ago by Father Cekada, which might qualify as a "beginner's guide" to understanding the current situation. There are some Canon Law references but it's definitely targeted at the layman. I didn't have any difficulty with it! I don't think it's published online, but I'm sure you can get a copy by mail.

Unfortunately anything on this subject before V2 would have only been written for Canon lawyers, I would think, since the laity didn't have to face this problem!

Did you read the various articles on http://www.dailycatholic.org?


I have held the position for close to ten years now, so may I say Welcome Aboard "the Enterprise". 8)

Author:  Admin [ Tue May 30, 2006 5:05 am ]
Post subject: 

Crazy Cat wrote:
There is a booklet entitled "Traditionalists, Infallibility, and the Pope" written about 10 years ago by Father Cekada, which might qualify as a "beginner's guide" to understanding the current situation.


There is an electronic copy here: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/tradsinfall.htm

Author:  Vince Sheridan [ Wed May 31, 2006 12:57 am ]
Post subject: 

Pax Christi :idea:



Dear abragers,

I would like to comment further regarding the article written by John Lane for the consideration of non-sede Clergy. Tittled " Some Considerations For Non-Sedevacantist Clergy"

When I have presented this paper to many of the anti-sede clergy of good will, that I have conversed with, it has had a claming effect on them. Why? Because of the tight reasoning, and clear presentation of the very theological principles one would engage to determine the clearest position on this issue. Another factor is the charity sown throughout the paper.

If you study this paper you will bring much benefit to the Church when conversing with other Catholics, both Clerics and laymen.

In Christ our King,
Vincent

Author:  Robert Bastaja [ Wed May 31, 2006 1:18 am ]
Post subject: 

Vincent: Did you mean to say claming or calming effect? :) I could take it either way...


Location for the above referenced article...

http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/considerations.html

Author:  Vince Sheridan [ Wed May 31, 2006 2:42 am ]
Post subject: 

Pax Christi !

Quote:
Vincent: Did you mean to say claming or calming effect? I could take it either way...



Both !!! :D The thing about spell check, when one typos a real word it can not be found :oops:

Growing up in Seattle and it being a seaport, we have a old Fish Bar named " Ivors" their motto was " Keep Clam".. so my little mind still juxtaposes clam and calm all the time ! Which as you can see can be very embarrassing :D

In Christ our King,
Vincent

Author:  abragers [ Wed May 31, 2006 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 

Thank you everyone. I will read all the referenced material.

Author:  Milt Nelson [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 

I always recommend three readily available documents to help understand the unique (Read: Sede Vacante) situation in which The Church finds itself today.
NOTE: These should be read Ad Seriatum (i.e. in 1-2-3 order) for continuity.
1. CHRIST DENIED by Fr. Paul Wickens;
2. THE PROBLEMS WITH THE NEW MASS by Dr. Rama Coomaraswamy.
These may be obtained directly from TAN Publishers - Box 424 Rockford, IL 61105 or wherever traditional books are sold; and
3. WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?
by Frs. Dominic & Francisco Radecki, CMRI. This too can
be had where traditional items are sold or directly from
Mary Immaculate Queen Center - No. 8504 St. Michael's
Rd. - Spokane, WA 99217 (Attn.: Sr. Mary Dominica,
CMRI, or: miqcenter@stmichaels.org if you prefer to 'e-mail'
her directly on the 'net').
Milt Nelson - Rathdrum, ID, USA

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