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 Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther 
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New post Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
It appears to be not the usual practice to post news idems at this site, but if true this appears to be history and, after the Council itself, the beginnings of our descent into the catacombs to be labeled as were the early Catholics by imperial Rome, "enemies of the gods and of the human race." Pray for our children and grandchildren. I fear that one day the New Order will decide it is time to exterminate the "cults" all together to may room for the univocal New Age global mystery religion.

Quote:
From The Times
March 6, 2008


That Martin Luther? He wasn’t so bad, says Pope

Richard Owen in Rome

Pope Benedict XVI is to rehabilitate Martin Luther, arguing that he did not intend to split Christianity but only to purge the Church of corrupt practices.

Pope Benedict will issue his findings on Luther (1483-1546) in September after discussing him at his annual seminar of 40 fellow theologians — known as the Ratzinger Schülerkreis — at Castelgandolfo, the papal summer residence. According to Vatican insiders the Pope will argue that Luther, who was excommunicated and condemned for heresy, was not a heretic.

Cardinal Walter Kasper, the head of the pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity, said the move would help to promote ecumenical dialogue between Catholics and Protestants. It is also designed to counteract the impact of July's papal statement describing the Protestant and Orthodox faiths as defective and “not proper Churches”.

The move to re-evaluate Luther is part of a drive to soften Pope Benedict's image as an arch conservative hardliner as he approaches the third anniversary of his election next month. This week it emerged that the Vatican is planning to erect a statue of Galileo, who also faced a heresy trial, to mark the 400th anniversary next year of his discovery of the telescope.
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The Pope has also reached out to the Muslim world to mend fences after his 2006 speech at Regensburg University in which he appeared to describe Islam as inherently violent and irrational. This week Muslim scholars and Vatican officials met at the pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue in Rome to begin laying the groundwork for a meeting between the Pope and leading Muslims, also expected to be held at Castelgandolfo.

Cardinal Kasper said: “We have much to learn from Luther, beginning with the importance he attached to the word of God.” It was time for a “more positive” view of Luther, whose reforms had aroused papal ire at the time but could now be seen as having “anticipated aspects of reform which the Church has adopted over time”.

The Castelgandolfo seminar will in part focus on the question of apostolic succession, through which the apostles passed on the authority they received from Jesus to the first bishops. After the Reformation Protestants took the view that “succession” referred only to God's Word and not to church hierarchies but some German scholars have suggested Luther himself did not intend this.

Luther challenged the authority of the papacy by holding that the Bible is the sole source of religious authority and made it accessible to ordinary people by translating it into the vernacular. He became convinced that the Church had lost sight of the “central truths of Christianity”, and was appalled on a visit to Rome in 1510 by the power, wealth and corruption of the papacy.

In 1517 he protested publicly against the sale of papal indulgences for the remission of sins in his “95 Theses”, nailing a copy to the door of a Wittenberg church. Some theologians argue that Luther did not intend to confront the papacy “in a doctrinaire way” but only to raise legitimate questions - a view Pope Benedict apparently shares.

Luther was excommunicated by Pope Leo X, who dismissed him initially as “a drunken German who will change his mind when sober”.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:14 pm

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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Pax Christi !

Yes this has created quite stir with the sedeplenist's over at AQ who thought benedict was the great restorer and defender of the traditional Catholic Faith !

Here is the response from the AQ Moderator Servitum

Quote:
What's next, the "rehabilitation" of Judas? Perhaps a statue of Darwin?

I hate to say this, but we're probably going to have to wait until the first-generation counciliarists to die-off before things really begin to get better. I don't wish anyone dead, but the simple fact remains that once they're gone, Holy Mother Church will be better for it.

I'm very thankful for many of the things that the Holy Father has done, but it seems that a the saying that a Leopard doesn't change its spots holds true. There is no getting around that Pope Benedict XVI, the man, is a confused modernist.


What he doesn’t seem to grasp; his wish for all the first-generation of conciliarists to " pass on", is hallow, for they have already " passed on" 40 years of well groomed replacements.

benedict in actuality will be the last, " cultured" non-pope. By that I mean, he will be the last to at least prefer Mozart to folk music, a little latin to venacular, and will be the last to wear a jeweled miter.

That is all the " tradition' he really holds.

In Xto,
Vincent


Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:41 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Quote:
benedict in actuality will be the last, " cultured" non-pope. By that I mean, he will be the last to at least prefer Mozart to folk music, a little latin to venacular, and will be the last to wear a jeweled miter.


One shudders to think of that kind of future. AQ's response is very familiar, it's what what some of my friends and I tried to do, and for far too long, out of fear of finding ourselves "refusing to submit to the roman pontiff". So one keeps making excuses, rationalizing everything in favor these "popes," disregarding the law of contradiction (trying against the evidence of our own eyes to see mere ambiguity where contradiction is plain enough), and refusing (out of fear) to consider the ecclesial implications of pertinacious heresy.

Quote:
What's next? Rehabilitate Judas?


Perhaps it will be pondering similar questions that will ignite a greater fear than just described, viz., fear of the warnings of apostasy to come. How could this not be it, the question nags? Or at least do we have the right simply to presume this can't be it? (here is where the longing for "safety in the Faith" yells out warnings, and rings alarms---at least for me it did when I slowly but inexorably saw certain things after Benedict's election. I tried to resist the evidence but the resistance kept dissolving in view of the facts and where they were likely leading).

So many lean on the SSPX or conservative leadership. The questions still nag however: "where will it all stop"?

I do think more emphasis should be placed on constantly putting the question to the Vatican as the Abbe de Nantes does (he predicted Paul VI would "be anathametized" as early as 1973 and I suspect he already knows all too well he was an antipope, but he awaits the juridical sentence to deliver him from moral to absolute certainty; or simply for the facts to out in view of everyone).

He constantly demands of the Vatican: How can you (conciliar popes) justify this or that by Catholic princples? He refuses to cease accusing. The SSPX too does this but not as directly, it seems to me. They prefer to be courted, it sometimes seems. Th e aggressive approach seems wise to me since the Vatican must resort to dismissing Tradition by constantly and unconvincingly seeking to historicize it all, neatly placing its elements, events and pronouncements "in their historical context," while insisting that "new moments" call for "new" answers and initiatives. Pascendi condemns this deceit, but it works for many good-faith poor conservatives regardless. But if Catholics were aggressive, many other Catholics would be stirred to think.

Whatever one thinks of the Abbe de Nantes and his disciples, he has showed how to irritate the wolves and beasts and keep them on the defensive. I think Sedes generally fail to see that, or insist a priori that it's a waste of time. That's wrong I think. While a cat is not afraid of one mouse (even a formidably brilliant one like the AdN), it will run when it sees hundreds of mice coming. The media might have to notice also. Catholics should be taking out ADS (adverts) in major papers accusing the popes and councils of betraying the Catholic Faith and nations. Today there is no clash and that, it seems to me is part of the problem. All whimper and no Bang.

But Luther should be plain enough to stir the Catholic wrath. Grace builds on nature; quietism won't get us anywhere good.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:33 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
paxus wrote:
Whatever one thinks of the Abbe de Nantes and his disciples, he has showed how to irritate the wolves and beasts and keep them on the defensive. I think Sedes generally fail to see that, or insist a priori that it's a waste of time.

Well, he can do what he likes (although I think he has passed away now). The question is, what good can we do and in what way? In answering this question his example might be useful, so I ask, has the Abbe de Nantes irritated the wolves or put them on the defensive? I don't think so.

Further, he was a poor theologian and his own claim to be "the theologian of the counter-revolution" carried an odour of vanity equal to its scent of unreality. He didn't understand or adhere to Bellarmine or indeed any of the theologians on the question of heresy and ecclesiastical offices. He made up his own position.


paxus wrote:
Grace builds on nature; quietism won't get us anywhere good.

Not every problem will be solved with a shillelagh, my friend. What you think is quietism might, in a different light, be seen as modesty, humility, and dutiful diligence, while the urge to "do something" might be pride, instability, irresponsibility and selfishness.

Did you see this post? viewtopic.php?p=1112#p1112

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In Christ our King.


Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:08 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Joh Lane wrote of the Abbe de Nantes

Quote:
Further, he was a poor theologian


Well, he may have had his weaknesses (many a theologian has a few, no?) but Michel Guerard des Lauriers, O.P. for one (though he is distrusted by some here) said it was the AdN's Accusations which provided the airtight theological certainty required to accuse Paul VI of being an antipope. Moreover he has a burning zeal (in the best sense) for the truth of the Church. I have read his Accusations just in the last couple of years again and it is most impressive.

Please do not take this the wrong way since it is meant to be constructive, too many Sedes talk in a closed circle it seems to me, even if the level and quality of discourse is often higher than general trads. The Abbe de Nantes followed the biblical admonition to accuse, reprove, and correct the heretic, if only to assist the Church in seeing what is going on and begin thinking.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:57 am

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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Actually, I've been expecting this to begin for some time. After all, we're now less than 10 years away from the big anniversary--500 years--since Luther nailed his 95 Theses on the Church door on 17 October 1517.

For the past few years, I have been asking traditional and conservative Catholics of my acquaintance how they thought the Church would celebrate this event. The reaction has been universally one of horror. The traditionalists generally saying, in sadness, that they don't know what kind of abomination will happen; while conservatives, to a man, declaring (as they did with girl altar boys, Communion in the hand, etc.) that the pope and the Vatican will never celebrate this event except to unequivocally condemn Martin Luther's actions.

Today, we are seeing the groundwork being laid that will allow for a full--and "joyous"--celebration of the beginning of the Protestant Revolution and will probably culminate in a full papal apology for the various and sundry "crimes" committed by the Church against Luther and his followers.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 1:18 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
TKGS wrote:
After all, we're now less than 10 years away from the big anniversary--500 years--since Luther nailed his 95 Theses on the Church door on 17 October 1517.


Actually I think it was October 31st. That's going to be one heck of a Halloween. :shock:


Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:59 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Penrod Schofield wrote:
TKGS wrote:
After all, we're now less than 10 years away from the big anniversary--500 years--since Luther nailed his 95 Theses on the Church door on 17 October 1517.


Actually I think it was October 31st. That's going to be one heck of a Halloween. :shock:


Of course, you're right. I knew it was the 31st; I was intending to type the 31st; I was thinking about Halloween as I typed; yet somehow "technical difficulties" caused "17" to appear on the screen. Obviously, there is some sort of computer malfunction sitting at the keyboard.


Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:46 pm
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Pax Christi !

Is this story still considered on the up and up?

In Xto,
Vincent


Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:46 am
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Quote:
Is this story still on the up and up?


It's hard to believe Owen just pulled it out of his hat and maybe it was a planted trial balloon, since Owen said his sources were high Vatican insiders; but the Vatican has now said his was a false report. In any case as someone wrote, who needs Luther haloed when we have Hans Kung and a host of other priests who make Luther look like an altar boy, and when "the doctrine of justification is not a church-dividing issue for Catholics and Lutherans"?

http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles ... catname=15 (a devastating indictment)


Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:17 pm

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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
If (Pope) Benedict XVI would actually “rehabilitate” Luther, mightn’t it be enough to knock some sense into some Catholics? How could they continue to think that the pope is only a confused modernist? How could they not begin to reconsider their past rationalizations, to see what they had previously refused to see?

It seems to me that “rehabilitating Luther” would be posting a billboard saying “Look! The “pope” is not Catholic – he admits it himself!”. I know this is readily apparent from all the pope has said and done, even before he was elected. But LUTHER to me is a symbol (and a root cause) of anti-Catholicism itself.

It would be just too obvious. I think the pope is far more clever than that. So I tend to believe that the Vatican said the rumor was false, and that it won’t happen.

Catholics, as always, need some stirring, not to wrath, but to thought and to prayer – but especially if apostasy is upon us or soon to come. Whether in fear, doubt, and confusion or in sorrowful love and faith, I think that the apostles and Mary offered prayers while Christ was on the cross; and we need to do the same today.


Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:30 am
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
I'm afraid that Joint Declaration shows Luther has already been rehabilitated.

Along other lines, as one who finds the Guerardian thesis plausible (and hopeful for the sake of Christ's upholding the visible Church in which many millions are bewildered) I believe we can pray for the pope's revival.

But even purist Sedevacantists can pray for his soul now that he is still alive. The doctrinal crisis is increasingly clear to many, as is the disorientation it causes, but we can still pray for those who are lost or in danger of it, icluding ourselves. The spiritual dimension is critically important even for our own souls. St. Paul wished he himself could have been accursed, he said, that Israel might be saved. That kind of love and concern points in the right direction even as we work to expose errors and console the bewildered (including ourselves).


Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:23 am

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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
paxus wrote:
I'm afraid that Joint Declaration shows Luther has already been rehabilitated.

You must be referring to the JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church. (I'm still learning)

This declaration may have "rehabilitated" Luther in effect. But it seems that some Catholics, who "got over' (or didn't pay much attention to) this first "rehabilitation" , are alarmed by the prospect that the church would make this "rehabilitation" (or re-rehabilitation? :wink:) more explicit and direct.

I'm not considering the meaning or intent of the actual documents or acts here, but only their possible impact on Catholics who don't yet admit there is a crisis.
paxus wrote:
Along other lines, as one who finds the Guerardian thesis plausible (and hopeful for the sake of Christ's upholding the visible Church in which many millions are bewildered) I believe we can pray for the pope's revival.

But even purist Sedevacantists can pray for his soul now that he is still alive. The doctrinal crisis is increasingly clear to many, as is the disorientation it causes, but we can still pray for those who are lost or in danger of it, icluding ourselves. The spiritual dimension is critically important even for our own souls. St. Paul wished he himself could have been accursed, he said, that Israel might be saved. That kind of love and concern points in the right direction even as we work to expose errors and console the bewildered (including ourselves).

In general it seems that Catholics in this forum are more able to understand the situation in the Church than most Catholics are. They are blessed not only in the circumstances of their lives, but also in their far greater than average intellectual gifts (as well as, by God's grace) the use to which they've put these gifts - seeking and studying the truth, wherever it leads them). They follow the doctrinal theology issues, and see the real crisis.

But God could teach other Catholics (with different gifts, circumstances, virtues or vices) of the Church's real plight in some other ways than he teaches us. It seems to me that some Catholics are able to see the moral devastation in the Church, but only to see the "tip of the iceburg" of the full crisis. They not only think "it's just impossible", but they also think "I can't understand the Papacy or Church theology". So God could expose the errors and papal crisis in the church in some simpler fashion than He does for us, even if just as difficult to accept. His using "the pope's "re-"rehabilitating Luther" (to help some) is only a stray thought. God's ways are the best ways.

May Christ grant that all Catholics pray for the Church and for each other, whether they clearly or only dimly see Her plight.


Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:58 am
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
EaglesWings wrote:
In general it seems that Catholics in this forum are more able to understand the situation in the Church than most Catholics are. They are blessed not only in the circumstances of their lives, but also in their far greater than average intellectual gifts (as well as, by God's grace) the use to which they've put these gifts - seeking and studying the truth, wherever it leads them). They follow the doctrinal theology issues, and see the real crisis.

But God could teach other Catholics (with different gifts, circumstances, virtues or vices) of the Church's real plight in some other ways than he teaches us. It seems to me that some Catholics are able to see the moral devastation in the Church, but only to see the "tip of the iceburg" of the full crisis. They not only think "it's just impossible", but they also think "I can't understand the Papacy or Church theology". So God could expose the errors and papal crisis in the church in some simpler fashion than He does for us, even if just as difficult to accept. His using "the pope's "re-"rehabilitating Luther" (to help some) is only a stray thought. God's ways are the best ways.

May Christ grant that all Catholics pray for the Church and for each other, whether they clearly or only dimly see Her plight.

Beautiful thoughts, and most edifying, EW. Thank you.

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Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:26 am
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New post Re: Richard Owen: Ratzinger to Rehabilitate Martin Luther
Eagleswings: Beautiful thoughts indeed. Thank you.


Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:05 am
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