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 Gredt or Hugon? 
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:40 am
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New post Gredt or Hugon?
Go here for an online version of the latest edition of Fr. Joseph Gredt's most famous work:
Elementa philosophiae Aristotelico-Thomisticae vol. 1 (logica & philosophia naturalis)
vol. 2 (metaphysica, theologia naturalis, ethica).
John Deely calls Joseph Gredt a "learned Benedictine philosopher-scientist," and he was a classmate of Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange. Here is his major work:
There's a "full screen" option, and you can even download a PDF if you register for free with Gloria.tv.

Another manual-style series similar to Gredt's is Édouard Hugon's:
Cursus Philosophiæ Thomisticæ I (PDF)
Cursus Philosophiæ Thomisticæ II (PDF)
Cursus Philosophiæ Thomisticæ III (PDF)
Click here for a review of Gredt's work.

I was wondering if anyone here has read either of these works. They are included in Fr. Cekada's seminary curriculum for Most Holy Trinity Seminary, Warren, MI. Which is better, Gredt or Hugon? Thanks

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«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Last edited by Alan Aversa on Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:45 pm
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Well, I have seen both, but I am far from competent to make a judgment there.

I think I read somewhere that Gredt´s work is pretty much in the direct tradition of baroque scholasticism and basically a new rendering of John of St. Thomas, while Hugon´s approach is a little bit more modern. Also, I think the latter is somewhat more prominent and has more credentials.

Thats what I heard. And in the end of the day, I would always go with the Dominican :D


Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:43 am
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Julian wrote:
Well, I have seen both, but I am far from competent to make a judgment there.

I think I read somewhere that Gredt´s work is pretty much in the direct tradition of baroque scholasticism and basically a new rendering of John of St. Thomas, while Hugon´s approach is a little bit more modern. Also, I think the latter is somewhat more prominent and has more credentials.

Thats what I heard. And in the end of the day, I would always go with the Dominican :D
Yes, Fr. Cekada's seminary curriculum uses Hugon's for everything except theodicea, in which he uses Gredt's.

Hugon drafted the 24 Thomistic Theses and was a classmate of Garrigou-Lagrange at the Angelicum! Apparently they were both part of the Louvain school, too; the Louvain school is similar to the River Forest school in its attempts to relate Thomism to the modern positive sciences.

Click the PDF links above for a very nicely-formatted, OCRed scan of Hugon's work, courtesy Bibliothèque Saint Libère.

Read Hugon's 1922 piece on extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, which also has a good biographical introduction to Hugon himself.


Gredt apparently wrote some interesting things regarding subsistit in.

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Last edited by Alan Aversa on Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:55 pm
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Alan Aversa wrote:
Yes, Fr. Cekada's seminary curriculum uses Hugon's for everything except theodicea, in which he uses Gredt's.


And Zigliara for Ethics. But I am pretty sure Bp. Sanborn made the curriculum, you might want to ask him.




Where did you get that info from? I could not trace it back to the link cited.

Thanks for the other links, but unfortunately I cannot read French nor Italian :D


Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:42 pm
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Julian wrote:
Thanks for the other links, but unfortunately I cannot read French nor Italian :D
I've corrected the link.

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:07 pm
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
As a physicist, I was most interested in the second treatise of his Cosmology volume, titled "On the World as far as its Material and Formal Causes." In it he cites quite frequently the French physicist Pierre Duhem's Mixture and Chemical Combination and The Evolution of Mechanics in his discussion on the hylemorphic theory of matter, which avoids the pitfalls of both atomism and dynamism. Hugon's clear proofs of every principle that he expresses syllogistically--and the objections to which he distinguishes, concedes, denies, contradistinguishes, etc., in very solid scholastic form--and his desire to show the congruity of scholastic philosophy and modern physics is very impressive. Here is an example:

"X. - Difficulties Resolved; Whether there is a Contradiction Between the Scholastics and the Scientists. [...] 3rd Objection. Apart from the Scholastics who are ignorant of natural things, no one else professes hylemorphism. Therefore, it is prudent to mistrust this system. Reply. In this question we must believe the philosophers more so than the physicists and the chemists, as is evident from the previous reply. Further, the greatest philosophers, Aristotle, St. Augustine, and St. Thomas, adhered to this system. Even today many outside of of the Scholastics support it. Barthélemy Saint-Hilaire presents this testimony of the Aristotelian doctrine: 'For me, I find it to be simple and true, and it does not have the fault of being obscure; at most, I will grant that it has a certain subtlety, without being in any way sophistical. Matter and form are the logical and real elements of being.' (Préface de la Physique, p. 28.)."

One can only imagine what Hugon would have written had this book been published after the rise of quantum mechanics. It would only further confirm what Hugon cited of Duhem:

"Meanwhile, let it be clear that scientists that are true to their name do not contradict hylemorphism: 'Current physics tends to recover a certain form of peripateticism' [i.e., Aristotelianism]. (P. Duhem, Le mixte)."

Hugon cites modern spectral analysis to support that the

"Explanation of many things that are necessary for the complete understanding hylemorphism [...] III. - On the Permanence of Elements in the Mixture. [...] 3rd Objection. From spectral analysis it has been established that that in the composite there appear the colors of the simple elements. But this fact shows that the powers of elements remain in act in the composite. Therefore. Reply. I distinguish the major. That the colors of the elements appear in the composite while the composite remains at rest in the compound state, I deny; that these colors appear while the mixed body begins to be resolved through the action of light or heat, I concede. I contradistinguish the minor: that this fact shows that there are powers in act in the mixed body, if this happens in the compound state itself, I concede; but that this shows there are powers in act in the mixed body if this happens only when the mixed body begins to be resolved and destroyed, I deny. And I deny the conclusion. That only implies that the powers persist in similar entities."

Following this, Hugon cites Duhem:

Most recently, P. Duhem has said, 'For Aristotle, all philosophical research was based on a very minute logical analysis of the concepts that perception has made to germinate in our understanding. Each notion is appropriately stripped down to the exact contribution of experience, that which essentially constitutes the notion, and the parasitic ornaments with which fantasy dresses it up are strictly rejected. What has this to do, for example, with philosophising on mixts? It will require, above all, an exact analysis bringing out the distinction between elements, which cease to exist at the moment when the mixt is created, and the homogeneous mixt whose smallest part contains the elements potentially and can regenerate them by the appropriate corruption. In the view of the atomists, these necessary and sufficient conditions for the constitution of the notion of a mixt are substituted by hypotheses about the persistence and juxtaposition of atoms. These hypotheses, whose objects are not in any way perceptible by our legitimate means of knowing, should be relentlessly banished to the realm of pipe dreams.
'Contemporary physics, too, puts an exact logical analysis of the notions furnished by experience at the foundations of all theory. It endeavours by such analysis not only to mark with precision the essential elements that compose each of these notions but also to meticulously eliminate all parasitic elements that mechanical hypotheses have gradually introduced.' (P. Duhem, Le mixte)."

Praising Duhem, Hugon says:

"IV. - The Scholastic System is Substantially Retained Today [...] It is also appropriate to write the following testimony of the most learned P. Duhem: 'Little by little, however, by the very effect of this development, mechanical hypotheses came up against obstacles on all sides which were more and more numerous and difficult to surmount. The atomic, Cartesian, and Newtonian systems gradually lost favour with physicists and made way for methods analogous to those advocated by Aristotle. Present-day physics is tending to return to a peripatetic form.' (P. Duhem, Le mixte)."

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:03 am
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:40 am
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Location: Tucson, Arizona
New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Another thing I noticed is that Gredt appears to include way more direct quotes than does Hugon. Gredt actually seems very good.

Also, John Deely says Gredt underwent 7 editions in his lifetime and 5 posthumous editions, ending in 1961. I wonder if Hugon can boast that?

UPDATE: WorldCat says:
Gredt:
Elementa philosophiae Aristotelico-Thomisticae
42 editions published between 1921 and 1961 in 3 languages and held by 260 libraries worldwide

Hugon:
Cursus philosophiæ thomisticæ : ad theologiam Doctoris Angelici propædeuticus
9 editions published in 1922 in Latin and held by 44 libraries worldwide

I think Gredt wins. :)

Also, Maritain's The peasant of the Garonne; an old layman questions himself about the present time mentions Gredt.

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:09 am
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New post Gredt's short biography
From Miscellanea philosophica : R.P. Josepho Gredt OSB : completis LXXV annis oblata (1938)—a sort of philosophical anthology Gredt compiled that includes excerpts from people like Boyer ("De forma anselmiana argumenti ontologici"), Müller ("Philosophie et foi chez Siger de Barabant, La théorie de la double vérité"), Maritain ("Remarques sur l’intuition bergsonienne de la durée"), Ramirez ("Doctrina S. Thomae Aquinatis de distinctione inter habitum et dispositionem"), Garrigou-Lagrange ("Non potest esse genuina sensatio sine reali sensato")—the first page gives his biography:

Quote:
Josephus (Augustinus) Gredt natus est Luxemburgi die 30 iulii 1863. Studiis humanioribus in Athenaeo civitatis suae, quod a patre regebatur, absolutis, ad sacerdotium aspiravit et in clericorum Seminarium eiusdem civitatis ingressus est. In cursu theologica Joanne Woltrink, qui restauratore studiorum clericalium Leone XIII s. m. monente anno 1884 Luxemburgum vocatus erat ut munere lectoris theologiae dogmaticae fungeretur, in doctrinam et rationem santi Thomae Aquinatis introductus est. Sacerdotio auctus die 24 augusti 1886 a Joanne Josepho Koppes f. m. episcopo Luxemburgensi ut studio prosequeretur et lauream in Sacra Theologia acquireret, Romam missus est, ubi frequentabat egregios de renovata doctrina thomistica bene meritos magistros Franciscum Satolli, postea S. R. E. Cardinalem, qui in Collegio Urbano de Propaganda Fide floruit, et Albertum Lepidi O.P. futurum Magistrum Sacri Palatii Apostolici, qui in Collegio S. Mariae supra Minervam docebat. Deinde aliquamdiu in Universitate Oenipontana studio linguarum orientalium sub clarissimo Gustavo Bickell vocavit.

Monasticam vitam professus est in abbatia B. M. V. Seckau in Styria die 18 Maii 1891. Mox abbatis iussu iuniores fratres monasterii philosophicis disciplinis erudivit, dum anno 1896 Romae in Collegio S. Anselmi O. S. B. professor philosophiae ordinatus est. Hoc munere innumeros fere alumnos inprimis ex ordine S. Benedicti doctrina aristotelico-thomistica instituit, atque etiam hodie eidem praeclaro officio indefesso labore vires suo impendit. Eminent eius «Elementa Philosophiae Aristotelico-Thomisticae» quae anno 1899 primo, anno 1937 septimo edita sunt. Quod opus doctrinam thomisticam genuinam et integram sermone luculento accurato reddere et optimum esse instrumentum philosophiae thomisticae elucidandae omnes consentiunt.

Anno 1908 P. Josephus Gredt Pontificiae Academiae S. Thomae Aquinatis et Religionis Catholicae associatus est. Anno 1932 constitutus est philosophicae Facultatis Pontificii Instituti S. Anselmi de Urbe O. S. B. Decanus. S. A. R. Carola, Magna Ducissa Luxemburgi, eum anno 1937 nominavit «Officier de l'Ordre de la Couronne de Chêne».

Deus cui animi nobilitate, perspicuitate ingenii, veritatis amore, religione sincera aetatem in doctrina fere peregit, eum omni bono spiritali repleat, ipse Pater luminum, cui sit in omnibus gloria.



Let me know if you'd be interested in a scan of the whole ~300 page book.

Have a blessed Holy Week.

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:17 am
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New post Re: Gredt's short biography
Alan Aversa wrote:
Garrigou-Lagrange ("Non potest esse genuina sensatio sine reali sensato")
This short little Fr. G.-L. essay actually looks worth transcribing and translating. He highly esteems Gredt, beginning with "Clarissimus Pater Josephus Gredt in omnibus suis operibus semper…" :)

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:25 am
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New post Re: Gredt or Hugon?
Francisco J. Romero Carrasquillo's translation of Hugon, O.P.'s Cosmology has finally been published by Editiones-Scholasticæ!

Hugon was Garrigou-Lagrange's colleague at the Angelicum for 20 years (source)!
Garrigou-Lagrange wrote:
Students, philosophers and theologians will for a long time have recourse to the Latin and French works of Hugon strongly approved by three Popes [St. Pius X, Benedict XV, and Pius XI]...and they will frequently consult his works considering him the theologus communis, the faithful eco of the Doctor Communis Ecclesiae
It seems he's even better than Gredt! Wow!

_________________
«The Essence & Topicality of Thomism»: http://ar.gy/5AaP
by Fr. Réginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
e-Book: bit.ly/1iDkMAw

Modernism: modernism. us.to
blog: sententiaedeo.blogspot. com
Aristotelian Thomism: scholastic. us.to


Thu May 16, 2013 3:04 am
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