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 Sedevacantist Position Held 
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 11:04 pm
Posts: 57
New post Sedevacantist Position Held
Dear Friends in Christ, Pax et Bonum.

Well, here goes my first post on our new forum, for which I thank the generosity of John Lane. With a full time job, a wife and eight children, and his thoughtful replies to email inquiries from various Catholics, it must be grace that gives him the energy to add Bellarmine Forums. God bless you, John!

BTW, John kindly informed me that "dilatato corde," his mottot for this forum, is from the Secret of the Mass of St. Robert Bellarmine. It means "with enlarged hearts." So may we, who will be sharing our Catholic thoughts in this special forum, only apply ourselves hereto with spiritually enlarged hearts filled with benignity and charity towards one another as we encourage one another to " keep our eye on the prize." This is my prayer for all of us.

:arrow: I do have a discussion point to offer, however. I am interested in how the other sedevacantist members arrived at that position.

As for me, thanks to my husband's continual concern, for almost a year now, about the heretical writings, acts and statements/teachings of the post-Vatican II popes (do I need to put that term in quotes?), I finally, after much internal struggle, accepted the truth that the heresies that were being foisted upon the Novus Ordo church were gravely offensive to Our Lord and to His Bride, The Church, and were/are leading souls to perdition.


How did some of you come to your sedevacantist position? Was it difficult? Do you still waffle between sede and non-sede?
Have you shared your position with your Traditional Catholic family/acquaintances? Have you lost friends as a result?
And, finally, what do you hope for as to the solution to this dilemma?

May Our Immaculate Queen give you every grace and blessing.

Abba


Thu May 18, 2006 3:26 pm
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Abba,

What a lovely post. Thank you very much for your story - how encouraging and thanks be to God for your clarity of position now. You and your husband must feel a great weight has been lifted and you are an example as to how perseverance is rewarded, even in this life! Thank you for your prayer for us here and I second your sentiments that we act with benignity and charity - which is a great challenge these days when there are so many disputed matters to hand and it is easy to become passionate about what we can see so easily and not always understand that others cannot. How many times a day do I have to remind myself, "There but for the grace of God go I"???

As for my embracing the truth regarding sedevacantism - well, I am a "cradle sedevacantist". So, no I did not lose any friends nor family! :)

As for what I would hope for as a solution, well, I would like to think that the Good Lord has another "Divine Surprise" in store for us, as He did when the beautiful St Pius X was elected.


Zelie


Fri May 19, 2006 2:33 pm
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Location: Eastern MA, USA
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Dear Abba,
This will be my first post here as well as an introduction, I suppose :D I was raised loosely as a novus ordo Catholic, until I was a teenager and my mother and I became more serious about the Catholic Faith. My first introduction to sedevcantism was actually on Yahoo chat. There I met many people who held this position, some very kind, some not so kind. I was scandalized, at first by the behavior of some, but there were questions and points that they brought up that seriously felt like heartburn, when I would consider them.

With the help of a few kind souls, one of who I am married to now, I was able to wade through some of the other issues of being a "traditionalist" and I left the novus ordo for good. I had not come to a conclusion on the state of sedevacantism at this point, I just figured both sides were trying to be Catholic and that it was not pressing that I make such a determination for myself.

Later that same year, I watched JP2 have his Assisi "prayer fest." I think it was at this point I actually realised that JP2 and I were not of the same religion and that I could not follow what he was commanding his followers to do, obviously because it would cause me to sin. So that was simply the last straw, and ever since I have been learning and trying to develop my understanding of the situation that Catholics today are faced with.

So, to answer the rest of your question, yes my family thinks I am insane. They often accuse me of thinking I am better than them. Oddly enough, my protestant (non-practicing) grandmother was actually able to understand my position and said that it made sense to her. But I think we get more grief from family members over they way we live our lives rather than our beliefs. It seems that our actual practicing of Faith and the way we raise our children bothers them more.

Nice to "meet" you all and I hope I answered this question adequately.

JMJ,
Janel


Sat May 20, 2006 3:06 am
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 2:26 am
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New post Re: Sedevacantist Position Held
Greetings!

This is my first post.

I came to know the fact that the Holy See has been vacant since the death of Pope Pius XII after much study and prayer. For me it was the Sacred Liturgy that drew me to this truth. I have heard such writers as Michael Davies talking about how "the clock can be turned back" and such idealized notions as that, but I came to the realization as as long as you recognize the supposed validity of "Vatican II" and the "Novus Ordo Missae" and of the "Conciliar" and "post-Conciliar" "papacies," one was essentially trapped. There is no way out of that mess if you really believe Roncalli and his successors were Supreme Pontiffs. It was a great source of melancholy to think I would be bound to such abominations forever. When I finally realized that those men were in fact imposters it was an immense relief, and it restored my confidence in Almighty God. For me it was the greatest blessing in my life.

When I started attending the true Mass, it such an enthralling experience. The beauty, the sublimity, the grandeur, the sheer loveliness, the evocation of the divine and eternal, all these things were undeniable testimonies that I indeed found the Church that Our Blessed Lord founded. The "Indultarians" and even the SSPX are bound to the apostate Rome, and as long as they are so bound, they will never know the true liberty and sweetness that comes with recognizing the truth.

Nevertheless, the transition was not without its difficulty. Most of my extended family alienated me but that did not matter. My parents and sister did in fact join me in renouncing communion with the anti-Popes. That was an tremendous blessing. Most of friends did not care (they were never serious about what they professed was their faith).

My solution to this dilemma: prayer and more prayer.


Sat May 20, 2006 4:59 am
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Hey, as for me... I'm still working through it. I've been strong Novus Ordo all my life. Was a big fan of Scott Hahn and all those guys. So it hurts to have to consider otherwise.

I now consider myself sedevacantist, but am still working through all of the details and putting it all together. Still have a lot to learn(on top of all that I have learned over the past year of study), but do believe sedevacantism is the only explanation for the current situation.


Sat May 20, 2006 5:33 am
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I am the only one in my family who thinks I am sane - and even I question my sanity from time to time (although for very different reasons than they do :wink: ).

I do not talk about this issue with my family, as the initial conversations were completely fruitless (I was a little too eager to "help" them see what God alone had helped me to see). Now, I just try to be as good a family member as I can, praying each day for their conversion.

I shall not (for the present) share the details of how I ended up where I am, but the bottom line is this - God picked me up by the neck and placed me among his most faithful servants in this age of apostasy, and I have thankfully never looked back (although He has patiently and tenderly released me from many defects, and healed my soul of many grievous wounds, along the way). May I, may we all, persevere until the end. God be praised.

Eamon

_________________
"If you are wise, you will be reservoirs and not channels."


Sun May 21, 2006 1:05 am
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 1:17 pm
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Location: Midwest USA
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Hello All,

This is my first post here as well. I embraced the Traditional Latin Mass on July 1, 2002. Prior to that, I was a Wanderite for many years. As far as SV goes, I'm in the process of sorting that out. What got me thinking about it was an article I read about obedience to the Pope. Reading additional articles at sgg.org got me thinking that the sifting approach cannot be the true way.

I attend an independent chapel and have not really made my thoughts on this known to anyone, except one other person there who is SV. There is no SV chapel nearby - only this one, another independent chapel, SSPX and indult.

Anyway, that's where I'm at and hope to learn.

Peace.


Mon May 22, 2006 3:08 am
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 2:17 pm
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Greetings. I will have to introduce myself in a greater detail at a time when I'm more comfortable, although I do remember being on another forum and happened to see John Lane there for a while as well. (Many thanks, John, for establishing this forum.)

I wish I had written a lot of things related to my own "conversion-in-progress" on paper or something for occasions like this.

Anyway, it was about a couple of years ago when I came across an article posted on "Catholic Restoration" (Bishop Sanborn's site) on or near the anniversary of the day nine priests were forced out of the SSPX. That was the first time I gave it serious consideration. The article's characterization of the SSPX was. . . well, I don't think words can sufficiently describe it, but I do know there is a problem with "sitting on the fence". . . nothing ever gets done. And look what has been going on all these years between the novus ordo sect and the SSPX. No progress.

It didn't take much for me to be convinced from there. I just needed to stop reading SSPX-related stuff for a while to make sure I was thinking clearly. And the Siri Fact, i.e., he was elected as the pope in 1958, was the point of no return, as it provides the best explanation as to why John XXIII was never the pope to begin with.

Later I started seeing how "sedevacantism" makes sense, not just because of the dogmas which would be denied for not accepting this, but also the numerous sins committed for remaining in the novus ordo sect or siding with the SSPX.

I kind of have an objection with the terminology because I think virtually all true Catholics say that the Holy See is vacant. Not everyone, because not everyone knows the key teachings, such as those from Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio which basically tell us that heretics and schismatics have no jurisdiction or authority in the Church.

As for friends, etc., after I left a charismatic group 3.5 years ago, as well as the novus ordo service, I have not been in contact with most of my friends. Maybe two or three still, and they know where I stand, but they just have this indifferentist thing going on. But hey, I haven't had many real friends for most of my life, so I'm already "prepared", it's not like I'd lose much if I lost another over faith issues. (Then, too, I suspect many people's concept of a friend is different at least where I live.)

Solutions. . . do something. . . evangelize, take your show to the blogs, and of course never question or doubt Magisterial teachings! This in addition of course to prayer and fasting.

More later, I can't think of anything else for right now.


Wed May 24, 2006 4:51 pm
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 12:18 pm
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Location: London, England
New post tunnel of love
I converted from nothing to the NO as a student aged 21 in 1976. Even then I knew all was not well; the priest who instructed me appeared to be in physical pain when describing the reforms of V2. In 1997 I was at one of the innumerable meetings held here by folks with the Catholic mind whose theme was and still is why oh why won't the bishops do something about the state of the church? and I met an SVist who planted the thought in my mind. I took his phone number but discarded it, thinking it a temptation. Mercifully (and after some years trying to find him again through mutual friends who would not help), we met again on 11 September 2001 (fateful day for so many) and at around 17:35 UTC on Friday the 14th of that month I mentally rejected the NO position while on a train in a tunnel here. I went into the tunnel protestant and came out Catholic. I formally became a Catholic on Sunday the 23rd of that month. Deo gratias.


Wed May 24, 2006 6:44 pm
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Dear Friends of the True Faith, My long, agonising journey out of darkness is not appropriate unless I used a pseudonym. What is remarkable about the sede vacante theory, or conclusion is that I read Mr. Lane's page a few years ago when we finally got a computer, and it had a profound impact on my heart. I kept checking for updates, finding nothing...kept hoping for more, and I imagined that Mr. Lane was an elderly genius, no longer so active. Perhaps a loyal relative was maintaing the web page. Imagine my shock when he participated at AngelQueen forum! Alive and kicking!! The lamentable state of affairs at AQ had me wishing that Mr. Lane would host a Catholic forum, and see how lucky we are now!! I really have a lot of learning to do; and clearly Bellarmine Forum is going to be very, very enlightening. I love the Holy Angels in a most special way. Love to all, E.


Fri May 26, 2006 5:10 pm

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 7:37 pm
Posts: 18
Location: New York New York
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The True Faith was discovered to me, by the grace of God, in 1995 after I attended my first true Mass. Within a few months I had my first computer and thanks to the chatrooms, discovered that there were other "crazies" like me all over the country, and the world, and I spent many many hours discussing the Faith, and the more I learned of the true Faith the more I understood how the Vatican Two church was indeed a completely different religion. (Most of my family and friends think I'm crazy simply for holding to the true Faith and calling the NO-church what it is....I haven't even reached the point of getting into the "Pope question" with them!)

Very early on, the sede-vacantist position was explained to me, and I had very little difficulty in comprehending it and finding it quite plausible. Perhaps this was because I had never really been a "devout" novus ordo-ite; I do not know. But before long there was no doubt in my mind that we do not now, and have not since the 1960's, have a true Pope. I wish this were not so, but the ways of God are not our ways and if this is His will, be it done.

I think that in past years, we as well as the opposing "side", were often guilty of a genuine lack of charity when arguing our position. What's interesting is that this seems to have changed. Lately, one really only experiences sarcasm, villification, and condemnation coming from the anti-sedevacantist camp. Do they protest too much?

I'm delighted to be a part of this Forum. It is GOOD for us to be here!

_________________
The expense is reckoned, the Enterprise is begun. It is of God, it cannot be withstood--so the Faith was planted, so must it be restored


Sun May 28, 2006 10:31 pm
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