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 Divine Mercy 
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New post Divine Mercy
Over on FishEaters they have a major discussion going on regarding Divine Mercy. Wasn't it originally on the index of forbidden books? What about what the Dimond Brothers say about it? Is it good to be saying other prayers on the beads of the Rosary?

I used to say the Divine Mercy but have stopped now.

Robert


Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:04 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
My opinion is that the prayer of Divine Mercy, like the Jesus Prayer (or its indulgenced equivalent "God be merciful to me, the sinner") , is beautiful in itself and can be separated from Sr. Faustina's "private revelation". There are variations of the prayer in the Rocolatta, and it seems sheer superstition to say one can never pray anything else on rosary beads.

After all, our Blessed Mother herself adores the Triune God, imploring the mercy of Christ's passion for the world continually.

But having said this, if the private "revelation" was under a ban before the Council, we would do well to heed that ban (the private "revelation") because discernment of such things seems to have gone down the drain after the Council.


Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:31 am

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New post Re: Divine Mercy
paxus wrote:
But having said this, if the private "revelation" was under a ban before the Council, we would do well to heed that ban (the private "revelation") because discernment of such things seems to have gone down the drain after the Council.
Pope Pius XII banned the image, too. See this.

See AAS 51 [1959], p. 271:
AAS 51:271 wrote:
NOTIFICAZIONE

Si rende noto che la Suprema Sacra Congregazione dei Sant'Offizio, prese in esame le asserite visioni e rivelazioni di Suor Faustina Kowalska, dell'Istituto di Nostra Signora della Misericordia, defunta nel 1938 presso Cracovia, ha stabilito quanto segue:

1. doversi proibire la diffusione delle immagini e degli scritti che presentano la devozione della Divina Misericordia nelle forme proposte dalla medesima Suor Faustina;

2. essere demandato alla prudenza dei Vescovi il compito di rimuovere le predette immagini, che eventualmente fossero già esposte al culto. Dal Palazzo del S. Offizio, 6 marzo 1959.

Ugo O'Flaherty, Notare
translation wrote:
A notification of the Holy Office:

The Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, having examined the alleged visions and revelations of Sister Faustina Kowalska of the Institute of Our Lady of Mercy, who died in 1933 near Cracow, has decreed as follows:

1. The distribution of pictures and writings which present the devotion to the Divine Mercy in the forms proposed by this Sister Faustina, should be forbidden;

2. It is left to the prudent discretion of the Bishops to remove such pictures which may have been already exposed for worship.

From the Holy Office, 6 March, 1959.

Ugo O'Flaherty, Notary
(source of translation)

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Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:27 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Look at the date it says 1959 which was anti-Pope John XXIII reign. This is I think what was discussed on both FishEaters and CathInfo, so I am not so sure. I have read some stuff one way and another that says Pius XI had approved it etc... Maybe if someone can post the original sources that might be helpful...

Thanks for the information and many friends have asked me about this. I tell them to be prudent and simply until proven otherwise stay away from the devotion. This is my take on it, and I most certainly can be wrong about it.

+Pax+

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Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:06 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Jorge Armendariz wrote:
Look at the date it says 1959 which was anti-Pope John XXIII reign. This is I think what was discussed on both FishEaters and CathInfo, so I am not so sure. I have read some stuff one way and another that says Pius XI had approved it etc... Maybe if someone can post the original sources that might be helpful...

Thanks for the information and many friends have asked me about this. I tell them to be prudent and simply until proven otherwise stay away from the devotion. This is my take on it, and I most certainly can be wrong about it.

+Pax+


I would note that the Church does nothing fast. Although the document may be dated early in the time of John 23, the people who were engaged were those under Pius XII and were still acting under the auspices of the Catholic Church. Thus, what came out of the Vatican during the first years of John 23 is most likely trustworthy.

Additionally, though this is more appropriate to a new topic, I am wondering if we can be sure that John 23 even was an anti-pope. Is there evidence that he was a notorious and pertinacious heretic? Was there doubt among the faithful that his election was valid (other than the smoke problem)? I don't know.


Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:04 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Well if you read the conspiratorial nature of Roncalli's election I would say undoubtedly he was invalidly elected, but since such things are secret by nature and can never be proven 100% absolutely we have to presume that he was validly elected. Although, I would not be surprised if it was otherwise. That is a good question, if he was validly elected and during that year which if I recall he had not yet done any public damage to the Catholic faith. His demolition of the faith really took off from 1960 and forward with the Missal and some of his other encyclicals.

There are many FreeMasons that have confirmed that he was a rationalist and a deist. Since we cannot be certain with absolute certainty any opinion on this topic can be defended pretty strongly. I think the changing of the Missal itself constituted something very grievous and Pacem in Terris was probably the peak of his heresy. Also invoking the Council with the intent of ecumenism with the Orthodox was also something very grievous. There are plenty of other things he did well before his election which can prove that he was definitely suspect of heresy.

He publicly helped communist during a time where it was pain of excommunication to do so under the reign of Pius XII while he was Patriarch etc... The list is pretty long, but these are just a few of the gold nuggets from the top of my head. There is a pretty good talk dealing with this that I just recently listened to [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0PE1YlHNQ[/youtube] . There are also the talks of "Fr." Gregory Hesse which are pretty interesting and there is also of course the book of Fr. Luigi Villa. Now I know John is a bit skeptical about Fr. Villa's claims. Even if we grant that some of his claims are not true, the research itself should be taken as is and each point taken independently especially when dealing with anti Popes, JP II and J XXIII. Some of the claims that he makes are pretty solid while some others are quite weak, so that it really takes a good objective view of things to be able to get benefit from Fr. Villa's two famous mini books on the Conciliarist heretics.

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Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:59 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Jorge Armendariz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0PE1YlHNQ
Interesting
thanks
"Beatification is a declaration a person is in heaven."???

Interestingly, Padre Pio had a photograph of Paul VI in his cell, so it seems he considered even him pope. That wouldn't be the first time a saint thinks an anti-pope is the true pope.

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Wed Dec 04, 2013 5:14 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Alan Aversa wrote:
Jorge Armendariz wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0PE1YlHNQ
Interesting
thanks
"Beatification is a declaration a person is in heaven."???

Interestingly, Padre Pio had a photograph of Paul VI in his cell, so it seems he considered even him pope. That wouldn't be the first time a saint thinks an anti-pope is the true pope.


Agreed. I think MHFM actually deals with this issue pretty good. The whole Padre Pio issue and Paul VI. Essentially what it boils down to is the teaching of the Church about Putative Popes who has to be obeyed if you believe that he is the true Pope. God will not judge you about doubtful Popes, if you made an honest mistake. The problem with these modern anti-Popes is that the previous anti-Popes still had the Catholic faith so that there as no danger of losing the faith. It was only a matter of jurisdiction, but all of them were working for the spread of the Catholic faith. With these anti-Popes if you follow their doctrines it will damn you.

The same goes with Padre Pio who I am sure did not read everything that was written by Montini. He was a simple humble monk who dedicated most of his life to prayer and penance. He did so much for the good of the Church and he was not omniscient, he only knew what the Lord God allowed him to see. Which many times was only for specific persons in very limited circumstances. It is never safe to approach a resolution of the crisis of the Church through any private revelation which is what I am trying to say. This is precisely what St. Vincent Ferrer said also, and this the teaching of the Church. Sadly enough too many rely solely on this for their theological background, this is why the sect of Palmar de Troya grew so big among traditional circles in Spain. Poor deluded souls, what is good is that many of them woke up to the reality that they were in a sect. Such an attitude towards private revelation certainly leads to demonic activity. This principle must be kept even more in tact especially during our times which can arguably be said to be so much closer to the time of the anti-Christ where great signs and wonders will deceive even the elect. Before the coming of the anti-Christ who might already be living among us many false prophets will arise and pave the way in increasing numbers. So much more must we be watchful, to the point of paranoia in my humble opinion with respect to private revelation. Private revelation outside of the magisterial teaching should be worth nothing, it should only be used when it agrees with tradition both oral and written.

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Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:08 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
This Youtube video is by Hetman Wojtek. Who is this man? I've never heard of him before. Why is he to be trusted?


Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:04 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
I don't know who was the one who spoke to be honest in the video linked. Just listen and decide for yourself, look up + verify whatever is said.

Many of the things that he has said are true I know this because of the books I have read more recently on Roncalli. "A Man named John" among other books which were written adulizing him as a Saint. So if they verify many of these things and they contain many sources, footnotes etc... I am not sure if you have read the diary of Roncalli that is where I think he gets many of his quotes. I still have to order it and go through some of it, maybe I can scan it for the benefit of everyone once I get the copy. I will let everyone know once I have that done.

Thanks.

+Pax+

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Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:48 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Jorge Armendariz wrote:
Many of the things that he has said are true I know this because of the books I have read more recently on Roncalli. "A Man named John" among other books which were written adulizing
You mean "idolizing"?
Jorge Armendariz wrote:
him as a Saint. So if they verify many of these things and they contain many sources, footnotes etc... I am not sure if you have read the diary of Roncalli that is where I think he gets many of his quotes. I still have to order it and go through some of it, maybe I can scan it for the benefit of everyone once I get the copy. I will let everyone know once I have that done.
Does A Man Named John verify that he uses a Modernist textbook for his class?

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Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:15 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Here's some verification of this video's claims:

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Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:17 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Also, something that strikes me odd about the Chaplet of Divine Mercy is this prayer in it:
Quote:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.
Only Christ, through His priests, can properly offer Christ in atonement. It seems improper, to say the least, for laypeople to say this prayer. It would seem to make sense only if this were a prayer in the Mass.

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Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:14 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Geremia wrote:
See this.
Her diary contains at least one heresy; that is enough for it to be on the Index:
Quote:
On October 2, 1936, she states that the “Lord Jesus” appeared to her and said, “Now, I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love Me, but because My Will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (Divine Mercy in My Soul, The Diary of Sr. Faustina, Stockbridge, MA: Marian Press, 1987, p. 288)
So, more intimately than with the Immaculate Conception?

Quote:
“From today on, do not fear God’s judgment, for you will not be judged.” (ibid., p. 168)
Who, besides Our Blessed Mother, can escape God's judgment?

Quote:
“And the host came out of the Tabernacle and came to rest in my hands and I, with joy, placed it back in the Tabernacle. This was repeated a second time, and I did the same thing. Despite this, it happened a third time.” (ibid., p. 23) … “Oh, no, here it is again. I have to go put this back now.”
Seriously, what kind of silly vision is this?

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Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:42 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
Alan Aversa wrote:
she states that the “Lord Jesus” appeared to her and said, “Now, I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love Me, but because My Will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (Divine Mercy in My Soul, The Diary of Sr. Faustina, Stockbridge, MA: Marian Press, 1987, p. 288)So, more intimately than with the Immaculate Conception?


The whole spirit of that women is like this. Our Lord supposedly told her many times that He loved her especially because she was so wonderful. Compare that with how he spoke to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque:
Quote:
I have chosen you as an abyss of unworthiness and ignorance for the accomplishment of this great design, in order that everything may be done by Me."

And her response?
St. Margaret Mary wrote:
I would rather have accused myself of my sins before the whole world than speak of these graces on account of my extreme unworthiness. It would have been a great consolation to me had I been permitted to read aloud my general confession in the refectory, in order thereby to make known the depth of corruption which is in me, so that none of the favors I received might be attributed to me."


Faustina is the polar opposite of this spirit, and so is her "Lord". Our Lord is a jealous God, choosing the least of creatures to do His will, so that man will attribute it properly to Him. Faustina's "God" is a slave of His chosen creature, enamoured of her, praising her, and she is more than willing to tell all the world about her superiority (His will is dearer to her than life!). She is chosen because she is holy! St. Margaret Mary was chosen because she was nothing.

Alan Aversa wrote:
Seriously, what kind of silly vision is this?


One which appeals to people who know absolutely nothing about the true religion, and have itching ears?

Btw, Karol Wojtyla personally resurrected this rubbish and approved it when he was Archbishop of Cracow.

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Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:34 am
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
John Lane wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
she states that the “Lord Jesus” appeared to her and said, “Now, I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love Me, but because My Will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (Divine Mercy in My Soul, The Diary of Sr. Faustina, Stockbridge, MA: Marian Press, 1987, p. 288)So, more intimately than with the Immaculate Conception?
Also, this reminds me of Wojtyła's Redemptor Hominis, which reiterated Gaudium et Spes, saying that "by his Incarnation, he, the Son of God, in a certain way united himself with each man."

John Lane wrote:
The whole spirit of that women is like this. Our Lord supposedly told her many times that He loved her especially because she was so wonderful. Compare that with how he spoke to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque:
Quote:
I have chosen you as an abyss of unworthiness and ignorance for the accomplishment of this great design, in order that everything may be done by Me."

And her response?
St. Margaret Mary wrote:
I would rather have accused myself of my sins before the whole world than speak of these graces on account of my extreme unworthiness. It would have been a great consolation to me had I been permitted to read aloud my general confession in the refectory, in order thereby to make known the depth of corruption which is in me, so that none of the favors I received might be attributed to me."
There's also this:
Quote:
Our Lord supposedly addressed Sr. Faustina on May 23, 1937, with these words: “Beloved pearl of My Heart.”
Would He stoop to saccharin flattery? Compare that to St. Catherine of Siena, where the Lord says to her: "I am, and you are nothing."

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Modernism: modernism. us.to
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Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:05 pm
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New post Re: Divine Mercy
John Lane wrote:
Alan Aversa wrote:
she states that the “Lord Jesus” appeared to her and said, “Now, I know that it is not for the graces or gifts that you love Me, but because My Will is dearer to you than life. That is why I am uniting Myself with you so intimately as with no other creature.” (Divine Mercy in My Soul, The Diary of Sr. Faustina, Stockbridge, MA: Marian Press, 1987, p. 288)So, more intimately than with the Immaculate Conception?


The whole spirit of that women is like this. Our Lord supposedly told her many times that He loved her especially because she was so wonderful. Compare that with how he spoke to St. Margaret Mary Alacoque:
Quote:
I have chosen you as an abyss of unworthiness and ignorance for the accomplishment of this great design, in order that everything may be done by Me."

And her response?
St. Margaret Mary wrote:
I would rather have accused myself of my sins before the whole world than speak of these graces on account of my extreme unworthiness. It would have been a great consolation to me had I been permitted to read aloud my general confession in the refectory, in order thereby to make known the depth of corruption which is in me, so that none of the favors I received might be attributed to me."


Faustina is the polar opposite of this spirit, and so is her "Lord". Our Lord is a jealous God, choosing the least of creatures to do His will, so that man will attribute it properly to Him. Faustina's "God" is a slave of His chosen creature, enamoured of her, praising her, and she is more than willing to tell all the world about her superiority (His will is dearer to her than life!). She is chosen because she is holy! St. Margaret Mary was chosen because she was nothing.

Alan Aversa wrote:
Seriously, what kind of silly vision is this?


One which appeals to people who know absolutely nothing about the true religion, and have itching ears?

Btw, Karol Wojtyla personally resurrected this rubbish and approved it when he was Archbishop of Cracow.


Great response John! Someone really should make a nice little diagram of approved revelation's and the differences with the modern revelations... I know the writings of St. John of the Cross is one of the best ways in which one can be able to discern what is from God, and from the devil.

Yeah, I too used to pray the Divine mercy. Simply because I never believed the Church could give poison, but of course at the time I was still a sedeplenist. I never prayed it alone, but mostly in a community setting with other faithful.

It was only after reading some of her Diary, that I stopped praying it completely until I resolved my doubts. Which of course I did, and I agree with Cristian's comment that it was condemned during a time where the Holy office was still operating under Catholic principles/doctrine. So that alone should give someone enough reason, to stop praying it... It is interesting that this was one of the biggie saints of Wojtyla, I would say the mark of his nontificate.

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Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:02 am
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