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 Question about Changes in Lenten Abstinence 
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New post Question about Changes in Lenten Abstinence
The prayer book "Blessed Be God" (Imprimatur 1925) has a page with fasting rules. In there it says that total abstinence from meat applies on Wednesdays and Fridays. A foot note mentions an indult that does not require abstinence on Saturdays during Lent in the USA.

I was wondering if anyone knew what the time table for these changes was. Apparently, there was total abstinence on Wednesdays, Fridays and Saturdays during Lent. That went down to only Wednesdays and Fridays and then further whittled down to Fridays only.


Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:41 pm
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A good link explaining the Church laws of fast and abstinence can be found here: http://www.traditionalcatholic.net/Trad ... nence.html

To understand the current laws of the Church on this, you should not use older books, as laws pertaining to things such as the fast or the liturgy are disciplinary laws, which can be changed by the Pope.

Pope Pius XII made changes to numerous disciplinary laws throughout the 1950's, so the older books do not reflect the current laws that are in effect. The link above is a good summary of all the fasting laws in effect until the death of Pope Pius XII.

Mike


Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:32 pm
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Mike wrote:
Pope Pius XII made changes to numerous disciplinary laws throughout the 1950's, so the older books do not reflect the current laws that are in effect.


Yes, and of course local rules also applied. Consequently, Australian fast and abstinence rules differed significantly from USA rules.

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Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:51 am
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Mike wrote:
To understand the current laws of the Church on this, you should not use older books, as laws pertaining to things such as the fast or the liturgy are disciplinary laws, which can be changed by the Pope.

Pope Pius XII made changes to numerous disciplinary laws throughout the 1950's, so the older books do not reflect the current laws that are in effect. The link above is a good summary of all the fasting laws in effect until the death of Pope Pius XII.

Mike


Coincidentally, I just got the newly-reprinted book "Blessed Be God" a few days ago.

It's a little unsettling to think about Pope Pius XII's having made numerous changes (all of which were in favor of laxity, obviously), isn't it? One wonders, why? I know often we look back at the Holy Father with longing, wishing he were alive today, but unfortunately he did more than a little harm, I fear. Why reduce discipline? A misguided attempt to make the Holy Faith more "attractive" to the world or the worldly-minded? We also are forced to admit that he helped pave the way for the revolutionaries by the changes to Holy Week. And of course, he gave us most (if not all) of the V2 bishops! But God rest his soul, and bless him for having also given us Saint Pius X.

I always use the oldest books I can find. I'd prefer to err on the side of giving up more than I have to for the sake of our dear Lord.

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Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:18 pm
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It's a little unsettling to think about Pope Pius XII's having made numerous changes (all of which were in favor of laxity, obviously), isn't it? One wonders, why? I know often we look back at the Holy Father with longing, wishing he were alive today, but unfortunately he did more than a little harm, I fear. Why reduce discipline? A misguided attempt to make the Holy Faith more "attractive" to the world or the worldly-minded? We also are forced to admit that he helped pave the way for the revolutionaries by the changes to Holy Week. And of course, he gave us most (if not all) of the V2 bishops! But God rest his soul, and bless him for having also given us Saint Pius X.

I always use the oldest books I can find. I'd prefer to err on the side of giving up more than I have to for the sake of our dear Lord.


Yes, Pope Pius XII did make numerous changes to universal disciplinary laws in the 1950's. Traditional Catholics should familiarize themselves with these changes as they were made by our last Pope.

Your comment that Pope Pius XII harmed the Church through the changes is very dangerous. The Church cannot give evil, it cannot lead Catholics into evil or impiety, not even to a slight degree. That is impossible.

Universal discipliary laws of the pope are infallible, the laws pertaining to the fast and the Holy Week Rites for example, are infallible, they contain no error and not a drop of impiety. For too long this mentality of doubting the Church's holiness has held a place of honor among traditionalists. This needs to stop.

I have a new idea, lets as Catholics trust the Church again. Do not doubt Pope Pius XII, but believe that whatever laws he gave for the universal Church were good for the Church. God in His Providence allowed the Pope to promulgate these laws for the good of His Church, is it our place to then doubt whether they were good? I do not think you will find any example of Catholics acting this way in Church history. Certainly no theologian or saint would ever have uttered such words.

(I will provide references for this in my next post)

Yours in JMJ,

Mike


Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:52 pm
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The following references were collected by Fr. Cekada, in his article dealing with the new Mass, this taken from appendix 2. The principles found in these references, however, can be equally applied to the universal disciplinary laws of Pope Pius XII. The full text of this article can be found at: http://www.strobertbellarmine.net/tradsinfall.htm

Appendix 2

Did the New Mass Come from the Church?

We noted above that, if the New Mass is Protestant, irreverent, sacrilegious, or otherwise harmful to the Catholic Faith or the salvation of souls, it cannot come from the authority of the Church, because her infallibility extends to universal disciplinary laws, including liturgical laws. Below are some quotes from theologians which explain this teaching.
Most theologians cite the anathema of Trent (also quoted here) against those who say that the ceremonies of the Catholic Church are 'incentives to impiety'.
'Incentives to impiety', most traditional Catholics would probably agree, is probably the best three word description one can find for the rites and prayers of Paul VI's Novus Ordo. It has done nothing but erode faith, promote error, and progressively empty our churches. The man who promulgated such a rite could not, therefore, have possessed the authority of Peter.

Council of Trent (1562)

"If anyone says that the ceremonies, vestments and outward signs, which the Catholic Church uses in the celebration of Masses, are incentives to impiety rather than the service of piety: let him be anathema."
Canons on the Mass. 17 September 1562. Denziger 954.

P. Hermann (1908)

"The Church is infallible in her general discipline. By the term general discipline is understood the laws and practices which belong to the external ordering of the whole Church. Such things would be those which concern either external worship, such as liturgy and rubrics, or the administration of the sacraments, such as Communion under one species....
The Church in her general discipline, however, is said to be infallible in this sense: that nothing can be found in her disciplinary laws which is against the faith or good morals, or which can tend [vergere] either to the detriment of the Church or to the harm of the faithful.
That the Church is infallible in her discipline follows from her very mission. The Church's mission is to preserve the integral faith and to lead people to salvation by teaching them to preserve whatever Christ commanded. But if she were able to prescribe or command or tolerate in her discipline something against faith or morals, or something which tended to the detriment of the Church or to the harm of the faithful, the Church would turn away from her divine mission, which would be impossible."
Institutiones Theologiae Dogmaticae. 4th ed. Rome: Della Pace 1908. 1:258.

A Dorsch (1928)

"The Church is also rightfully held to be infallible in her disciplinary decrees....
By disciplinary decrees are understood all those things which pertain to the ruling of the Church,, insofar as it is distinguished from the magisterium. Referred to here, then, are ecclesiastical laws which the Church laid down for the Universal Church in order to regulate divine worship or to direct the Christian life."
Institutiones Theologiae Fundamentalis. Innsbruck: Rauch 1928. 2:409.

R.M. Schultes (1931)

"The infallibility of the Church in Enacting Disciplinary Laws. Disciplinary laws are defined as 'ecclesiastical laws laid down to direct Christian life and worship'.....
The question of whether the Church is infallible in establishing a disciplinary law concerns the substance of universal disciplinary laws - that is, whether such laws can be contrary to a teaching of faith or morals, and so work to the spiritual harm of the faithful....
Thesis. The Church, in establishing universal laws, is infallible as regards their substance.
The Church is infallible in matters of faith and morals. Through disciplinary laws, the Church teaches about matters of faith and morals, not doctrinally or theoretically, put practically and effectively. A disciplinary law therefore involves a doctrinal judgement....
The reason, therefore, and foundation for the Church's infallibility in her general discipline is the intimate connection between truths of faith or morals and disciplinary laws.
The principal matter of disciplinary laws is as follows: a) worship...."
De Ecclesia Catholica. Paris: Lethielleux 1931. 314-7.

Valentino Zubizarreta (1948)

" Corollary II. In establishing disciplinary laws for the universal Church, the Church is likewise infallible, in such a way that she would never legislate something which would contradict true faith or good morals.
Church discipline is defined as 'that legislation or collection of laws which direct men how to worship God rightly and how to live a good Christian life.'....
Proof of the Corollary. It has been shown above that the Church enjoys infallibility in those things which concern faith and morals, or which are necessarily required for their preservation. Disciplinary laws, prescribed for the universal Church in order to worship God and rightly promote a good Christian life, are implicitly revealed in matters of morals, and are necessary to preserve faith and good morals. Therefore, the Corollary is proved."
Theologia Dogmatico-Scholastica. 4th ed. Vitoria: El Carmen 1948. 1:486.

Serapius Iragui (1959)

"Outside those truths revealed in themselves, the object of the magisterium's infallibility includes other truths which, while not revealed, are nevertheless necessary to integrally preserve the deposit of the faith, correctly explain it, and effectively define it....
D) Disciplinary Decrees. These decrees are universal ecclesiastical laws which govern man's Christian life and divine worship. Even though the faculty of establishing laws pertains to the power of jurisdiction, nevertheless the power of the magisterium is considered in these laws under another special aspect, insofar as there must be nothing in these laws opposed to the natural or positive law. In this respect, we say that the judgement of the Church is infallible....
1o) This is required by the nature and purpose of infallibility, for the infallible Church must lead her subjects to sanctification through a correct exposition of doctrine. Indeed, if the Church in her universally binding decrees would impose false doctrine, by that very fact men would be turned away from salvation, and the very nature of the true Church would be placed in peril.
All this, however, is repugnant to the prerogative of infallibility with which Christ endowed His Church. Therefore, when the Church establishes disciplinary laws, she must be infallible."
Manuale Theologiae Dogmaticae. Madrid: Ediciones Stadium 1959. 1:436, 447.

Joachim Salaverri (1962)

"3) Regarding disciplinary decrees in general which are by their purpose [finaliter] connected with things which God has revealed.
A. The purpose of the infallible Magisterium requires infallibility for decrees of this kind....
Specifically, that the Church claims infallibility for herself in liturgical decrees is established by the law of the Councils of Constance and Trent solemnly enacted regarding Eucharistic Communion under one species.
This can also be abundantly proved from other decrees, by which the Council of Trent solemnly confirmed the rites and ceremonies used in the administration of the sacraments and the celebration of the Mass."
Sacrae Theologiae Summa. 5th ed. Madrid: BAC 1962. 1:722,723.


Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:01 pm
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